Propaganda Machine

tulc · May 24, 2006

That's the whole rationale for censorship: Every time a US citizen criticizes Bush II, his administration, or his tactics, the terrorists win.

Sounds like they already have. I'm reminded of a quote:

Ramsey Clark said:
A right is not what someone gives you; it’s what no one can take from you.

tulc(have a great day!)

CCGirl · May 24, 2006

Zoot said:
The media in the US is ridiculously right-wing.

I know! From outside the USA, it is difficult to see any of their media that is "left wing".

clirus · May 24, 2006

To Nathan Poe and tulc

I presume your vote is to never ever enter into a war. Sounds good to me. Lets get rid of the military and reduce taxes.

Next 9/11, America could sent a strongly worded letter of complaint. Or let the UN handle the situation like they are doing in Africa.

Would you enter into a war if you knew before hand that battalions would be sent into combat unprepared, napalm would be dropped on a village of civilians, and Abu Gharib type situations would occur?

People get killed in a war. Get real. War is ugly and there are going to be atrocities. Either you don't have war or you accept the ugly things of war.

Using the ugly things of war as a political propaganda tool is what I would expect from an Atheistic liberal news media.

If you do not trust the leaders that are elected, then why did you elect them. Democrats don't like democracy. Democrats want their way irrespectively of the election results.

Nathan Poe · May 24, 2006

clirus said:
To Nathan Poe and tulc

I presume your vote is to never ever enter into a war. Sounds good to me. Lets get rid of the military and reduce taxes.

You presume incorrectly.

Next 9/11, America could sent a strongly worded letter of complaint. Or let the UN handle the situation like they are doing in Africa.

*yawn.* Doesn't the 9/11 excuse get old after a while?

(looking at my attached file) Guess not.

In any case, I've got no problem with our military or the option of war -- provided both are properly used.

Would you enter into a war if you knew before hand that battalions would be sent into combat unprepared, napalm would be dropped on a village of civilians, and Abu Gharib type situations would occur?

All of these things are preventable. Even though war is in and of itself, an atrocity, it does not justify other atrocities.

Are you suggesting that wars cannot be fought without ill-equipped troops, civilians targeted with napalm, or torture? I thought the US was better than that.

People get killed in a war. Get real. War is ugly and there are going to be atrocities. Either you don't have war or you accept the ugly things of war.

There is a difference between accepting the ugly things of war and committing them. Perhaps you will understand that someday.

Using the ugly things of war as a political propaganda tool is what I would expect from an Atheistic liberal news media.

Committing the ugly things of war in the first place is what I would expect of jingoistic facism.

If you do not trust the leaders that are elected, then why did you elect them. Democrats don't like democracy. Democrats want their way irrespectively of the election results.

I didn't elect these leaders -- SCOTUS did.

In any case, if an election were held today, would Bush II and his regime win?

nvxplorer · May 24, 2006

clirus said:
If you do not trust the leaders that are elected, then why did you elect them. Democrats don't like democracy. Democrats want their way irrespectively of the election results.

If you don't like what reporters are saying, then why do you listen to them? Censorship supporters don't like freedom. They want the media to say only what censorship supporters want them to say, irrespective of the truth.

susanann · May 24, 2006

Nathan Poe said:
*yawn.* Doesn't the 9/11 excuse get old after a while?

Not only old, but ridiculous.

With current immigration rates, we actually had more people living here on 9/12 than we did on 9/10. (current immigration rates result in the US population increasing by 50,000 additional people each week, that comes to 7000 more people each day, minus 3500 dead, netted us with an INCREASE of 3500 people on 9/11)

Our population increased by more than the number of people that died in all the explosions.

9/11 did not cause us to lose population at all, and no manufacturing facilities were destroyed, not even for 1 minute.

Germany, and Britain, managed to survive bombing losses of its first 3500 people killed without any measurable decrease in their economies at all, and they had much smaller, more vulnerable economies than the American economy.

If the British, German, and Japanese economies could accept thier first hits of 3 bombs with 3500 people dying without any effect at all on their economies, why do so many people today think, or try to use 9/11 as an excuse as to why such a small thing could have such a large effect for years.

I dont buy it at all.

It (9/11) is totally being used as an excuse, and a bad one at that.

tulc · May 24, 2006

Lets get rid of the military and reduce taxes.

Sounds good to me!
tulc(your faith in the US government as savior? how's that working out for you?)

tulc · May 24, 2006

If you do not trust the leaders that are elected, then why did you elect them..

...uhmmm I didn't.

Democrats don't like democracy. Democrats want their way irrespectively of the election results.

...I didn't realize I gave up my rights when someone I didn't vote for got put in office.
tulc(going to have to look that up)

clirus · May 25, 2006

To Nathan Poe and tulc

Your reply was pretty much in accordance with the little old ladies in the restaurant, "I love this restaurant, they have the most to complain about".

Democrats know it is safe for them to complain about war because they are too cowardly to engage in war, so they will always be complaining about Republicans.

My complaint is that soldiers are dying so that complainers can complain.

The war protestors and the Atheistic liberal news media that promotes them has been and continues to be traitors because they have given encouragement to the enemy and prolonged the war thus causing more deaths.

Soldiers are the shield that stand between the enemy and freedom in America, the war protestors are the ones that stand behind the shield and stab the soldiers in the back.

chalice_thunder · May 25, 2006

clirus said:
To Nathan Poe and tulc

Your reply was pretty much in accordance with the little old ladies in the restaurant, "I love this restaurant, they have the most to complain about".

Democrats know it is safe for them to complain about war because they are too cowardly to engage in war, so they will always be complaining about Republicans.

No - they are too smart and committed to diplomacy to engage in unnecessary war.

clirus said:
My complaint is that soldiers are dying so that complainers can complain.

I have no beef with soldiers; they are doing their duty, and I admire and respect them for their service.

However they are not dying so that complainers can complain. There is no freedom being fought for in Iraq. No noble American virtue. This is a personal war that Bush sent them in to fight. They are dying as a direct result of the president lying.

clirus said:
The war protestors and the Atheistic liberal news media that promotes them has been and continues to be traitors because they have given encouragement to the enemy and prolonged the war thus causing more deaths.

Dissent and reporting the truth are both PATRIOTIC.
If you want to look at traitors,
look to the executive branch of government as it subverts the constitution;
look to the legislative branch as it abdicates its role of oversight;
look to the judicial branch that enthroned Bush in the first place.

clirus said:
Soldiers are the shield that stand between the enemy and freedom in America, the war protestors are the ones that stand behind the shield and stab the soldiers in the back.

Protesters want the soldiers home safe with their families. There is no stabbing in the back here. Again, the backstab came from the current administration.

tulc · May 25, 2006

The war protestors and the Atheistic liberal news media that promotes them has been and continues to be traitors because they have given encouragement to the enemy and prolonged the war thus causing more deaths.

LOL! LOL! You are a delight clirus! We didn't want to go to war, we want the soldiers brought home safely and never again sent into something so poorly planned or executed, and WE are the ones getting them killed? I'll say it again: you are a delight!

soldiers are the shield that stand between the enemy and freedom in America,

I agree. That's why I pray for them everyday and hope for their safe return.

the war protestors are the ones that stand behind the shield and stab the soldiers in the back.

tulc(needs more coffee)

blueapplepaste · May 25, 2006

clirus said:
To Nathan Poe and tulc

Your reply was pretty much in accordance with the little old ladies in the restaurant, "I love this restaurant, they have the most to complain about".

Democrats know it is safe for them to complain about war because they are too cowardly to engage in war, so they will always be complaining about Republicans.

My complaint is that soldiers are dying so that complainers can complain.

The war protestors and the Atheistic liberal news media that promotes them has been and continues to be traitors because they have given encouragement to the enemy and prolonged the war thus causing more deaths.

Soldiers are the shield that stand between the enemy and freedom in America, the war protestors are the ones that stand behind the shield and stab the soldiers in the back.

*disclaimer* Before someone puts words in my mouth, I am in no way slamming our soldiers and what they're doing. They are doing an excellent job and all deserve our respect. My beef is with those who have sent them over there and who want them to stay over there. */disclaimer*

The Bushies are always screaming about how the military and the soldiers are defending our freedoms blah blah blah. But when were our freedoms ever under attack? I didn't know that had Saddam stayed in power the Bill of Rights would have been nil and void. Luckily we were there to protect our freedoms from Saddam? Seriously, though, it's you Bushies who are attacking our freedoms. Not terrorists or some Middle Eastern dictator.

You yourself clirus said that you were for censorship; that is an attack on MY freedom, on America's freedoms. Censorship is by far more un-American than anything that you believe is in the media.

Nathan Poe · May 25, 2006

clirus said:
To Nathan Poe and tulc

Your reply was pretty much in accordance with the little old ladies in the restaurant, "I love this restaurant, they have the most to complain about".

And what are you complaining about, ma'am?

Democrats know it is safe for them to complain about war because they are too cowardly to engage in war, so they will always be complaining about Republicans.

Riiiight... Democrats are spineless weaklings, and Republicans are supermen fighting for truth, justice, and the American jingo.

My complaint is that soldiers are dying so that complainers can complain.

Complainers including yourself. God bless America!

The war protestors and the Atheistic liberal news media that promotes them has been and continues to be traitors because they have given encouragement to the enemy and prolonged the war thus causing more deaths.

Remember, boys and girls -- every time George Bush hears criticism, a US soldier dies from a car bomb.

<foxnews>
"In international news, everything in just peachy, and our government can do no wrong. Here's Tom with sports."
</foxnews>

Happy now?

Soldiers are the shield that stand between the enemy and freedom in America, the war protestors are the ones that stand behind the shield and stab the soldiers in the back.

What did you think our soldiers were protecting? Are we not free to criticize our government?

Nathan Poe · May 25, 2006

chalice_thunder said:
I have no beef with soldiers; they are doing their duty, and I admire and respect them for their service.

However they are not dying so that complainers can complain. There is no freedom being fought for in Iraq. No noble American virtue. This is a personal war that Bush sent them in to fight. They are dying as a direct result of the president lying.

Dissent and reporting the truth are both PATRIOTIC.
If you want to look at traitors,
look to the executive branch of government as it subverts the constitution;
look to the legislative branch as it abdicates its role of oversight;
look to the judicial branch that enthroned Bush in the first place.

Protesters want the soldiers home safe with their families. There is no stabbing in the back here. Again, the backstab came from the current administration.

Quoted for truth. THIS is what our soldiers are fighting for -- and they are the ones who should be praised -- not the Bush II regime.

RealityCheck · May 25, 2006

I can't add much to this that hasn't already been said. Tinfoil Hat sums it up.

Anovah · May 25, 2006

Hi Clirus,

Sorry for the delay in getting back.

clirus said:
Anovah quote
I strongly disagree with censorship, and I'd like to explain why and see what your thoughts might be.

Response
How would you feel about establishing a set of standards and refusing publication to those who do not meet those standards? Would you call that censorship?

I see what you mean and yes, ChristianForums does SELF CENSOR their own boards and as a private entity that is their right.

In a public forum, who would establish the standards and enforce them. Would you trust the "Atheist Liberal media" to censor the ChristianForums? (You'll have to inevitably put your trust in someone and you could never get a consensus on that, lest we are all robots)

This is exactly what ChristianFourms does. Certain subjects and language are considered to be unacceptable and inappropriate. If you want to see true freedom of speech go to the PBS NOW forum. Just read the headers.

ChristianForums censors THEMSELVES. It's a big difference. Huge even.

People tend to think of censorship as suppressing something that should have been told. However, not everything is fit to be printed. A prayer meeting can become a gossip group if the intent is malicious.

But wouldn't that be your opinion? Who gets to decide what is fit and unfit?

I believe censorship relative to moral issues and war matters to be essential.

Who gets to decide what is essential?

Without moral censorship every form of depravity will be presented, especially if there is a dollar to be made. That moral depravity will lead to the destruction of society, and the rejection of Jesus Christ.

Who gets to decide what is depraved? What would you think if it was the "Atheistic Liberal media" that got to decide?

Censorship is essential in a war. Wars should not fought. There is nothing about a war that is good. All news stories about war are bad. A war can easily be used by the news media to make a president look bad. However, as the news media is playing politics, soldiers are dying because they do not have the full support of the people who sent them into battle. America has not won a war since WW II where there was total censorship. Either we have, "war with censorship" or no war at all. Wars are not won is six months. It usually takes a generation of people to change the attitude of the people.

Doesn't that seem like a lot of power to hand over to the government? There would essentially be no accountability. How would you know if we we're fighting an unjust war? Would you WANT to know if we're fighting an unjust war? If so, how could that happen in a climate of censorship?

I'm sorry but I demand accountability from my government, and so does this man...

"trust but verify" -Ronald Reagan

P.S. I believe he often said this in reference to the manner in which the Soviet Union conducted their politics

CCGirl · May 25, 2006

Anovah said:
I'm sorry but I demand accountability from my government, and so does this man...

"trust but verify" -Ronald Reagan

P.S. I believe he often said this in reference to the manner in which the Soviet Union conducted their politics

He should have listened to his own advice.

clirus · May 25, 2006

Anovah quote
Doesn't that seem like a lot of power to hand over to the government? There would essentially be no accountability. How would you know if we we're fighting an unjust war? Would you WANT to know if we're fighting an unjust war? If so, how could that happen in a climate of censorship?

Response
I want to know we are fighting an unjust war "BEFORE" the war starts, not after.

There is always accountability in a war through the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Everyone should always be suspicious of the government as they should any powerful organization such as the Atheistic liberal news and entertainment industry. However, the government is voted into position but the executives of the Atheistic liberal news and entertainment industry are not. There is not check and balance relative to the Atheistic liberal news and entertainment industry and no accountability. Dan Rather is still employed by CBS.

SallyNow · May 25, 2006

Ahazmat said:
Except that in the current USA situation lower wages often do not mean more jobs. They often just mean lower wages. The nation had good jobs that paid a family wage replaced by low paying jobs. Tracking the numbers is very enlightening.

Erm, I think perhaps my post was misunderstood, as I was being tongue-in-cheek: I was showing the error in the theory that "lower wages=more jobs" and showing the consequesnces of this thinking.

Ahazmat said:
Sally, you really must stop showing the superiority of the Canadian educational system.

Now I'm not sure if you're being tongue-in-cheek or not

clirus · May 25, 2006

chalice_thunder quote
This is a personal war that Bush sent them in to fight.

Response
The Iraq war was authorized by the Congress of the United States, by an almost unanimous vote of both Democrats and Republicans. Congress has passed every budget appropriation for the Iraq War since then.

John Kerry ran a political campaign saying that the Iraq war was the right thing but that President Bush was not executing the war correctly. John Kerry was defeated.

If the democrats ever get back in control of the government, they will probably try to get 9/11 removed from the history books.

I am not sure that anything is going to change your mind, but I thought I would state this for the record.

It's like the advice of not trying to teach a pig how to sing, first it will not work, and second it annoys the pig.

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