Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[BNR32FAN]

Scripture teaches we are saved when we entrust ourselves to Jesus, that we are being saved as we work out our salvation, and we have yet to be saved. Depending on the context one or more may apply without the others. However the context of this thread really needs to direct your attention to being born again in Christ, which is a one-time event and is never repeated again. Our old man passes away are we are made a new creation.

I agree with what you said but I think being born again means we will forever have the conviction of the Holy Spirit within us because we know what God expects of us. A person can still lose their salvation if they don’t abide in Christ even if they still believe in Him or once believed in Him. The day will come when everyone will believe in Him and every knee will bend and every tongue confess that He is Lord but not everyone will be saved.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If Jesus only died for past sins, you must live your life under righteousness of obeying the law, for: sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4. Paul repeatedly states you do not

Sin is but not limited to transgressions of the law but instead transgressions against God. Worry, doubt, pride, and boasting are a few examples which are not transgressions of the law but are transgressions against God.

 

[BCsenior]

Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John3:4
Bearing in mind the definition of sin, Rom 3:20 could be written as:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Your thoughts?

My thoughts are with the dozen of different NT verses
which say "to remain righteous in God's sight one must practice righteousness".
Yes, it's the old story: all of the great stuff one receives
when he/she was born-again must be continued on!
Even improved upon via co-operating with the Holy Spirit
as one becomes progressively sanctified (made holy).
See Romans 6:16 and 19, which tell us ...
slave of obedience >>> righteousness
slave of righteousness >>> holiness
holiness >>> eternal life
"without holiness no one will see the Lord"

 

[BCsenior]

A person can still lose their salvation, if they don’t abide in Christ even if they still believe in Him or once believed in Him.

YES!
Abiding in Christ, being "in Christ", etc. does NOT mean
to believe in Him, have faith in Him, trust Him, etc.
It means to be "faithful" to Jesus.
IMO, Paul wrote only to "the faithful" in Ephesus (1:1) and Colossae (1:2)!

Jesus said 4 times in John 14 ...
"Those who love Me will obey My commandments".
Who gets into heaven who does not love Jesus?
And how about obeying (keeping) His commandments?

 

[BCsenior]

Who has flawlessly kept Jesus’ commandments?

You are missing the whole point
that we have been talking about.
We are saying that our on-going REPENTANCE
covers over our present and future sins.
Ref: especially 1 John 1:7-9

 

[BNR32FAN]

YES!
Abiding in Christ, being "in Christ", etc. does NOT mean
to believe in Him, have faith in Him, trust Him, etc.
It means to be "faithful" to Jesus.
IMO, Paul wrote only to "the faithful" in Ephesus (1:1) and Colossae (1:2)!

Jesus said 4 times in John 14 ...
"Those who love Me will obey My commandments".
Who gets into heaven who does not love Jesus?
And how about obeying (keeping) His commandments?

Actually the Greek word for faith is pisitis which not only means to believe or to trust in Jesus but also means to have faithfulness, trustworthiness, and fidelity. These have to do with devotion to God. Devotion is not a work but a quality Christians possess that produces works.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You are missing the whole point
that we have been talking about.
We are saying that our on-going REPENTANCE
covers over our present and future sins.
Ref: especially 1 John 1:7-9

Ok please forgive my mistake I thought you were saying that we must keep His commandments to be saved.

 

[BCsenior]

Ok please forgive my mistake I thought you were saying that we must keep His commandments to be saved.

May God bless you, brother!
IMO, this is quite interesting ...

4 times in John 14, Jesus says:
"Those who love Me will obey (keep)
My commandments."

So, must one love Jesus to get into heaven?
If so, must one obey His commandments
to get into heaven?

 

[BNR32FAN]

May God bless you, brother!
IMO, this is quite interesting ...

4 times in John 14, Jesus says:
"Those who love Me will obey (keep)
My commandments."

So, must one love Jesus to get into heaven?
If so, must one obey His commandments
to get into heaven?

Obey His commandments can mean do the absolute best we possibly can to obey or it can mean to never fail to obey. I believe that everyone no matter how hard we try will continue to fail at times until the day we die. I don’t think perfection is attainable in this life.

 

[BCsenior]

Obey His commandments can mean do the absolute best we possibly can to obey or it can mean to never fail to obey.

Okay, it is the first one ...
or maybe not even our absolute best,
but trying with sincere repentance!
(Since repentance means running from the sin,
it must be sincere or you don't actually run!)
Which means that habitual unrepentant BAC sinners
are a trillion miles from obeying His commandments.

 

[Karola]

My thoughts are with the dozen of different NT verses
which say "to remain righteous in God's sight one must practice righteousness".
Yes, it's the old story: all of the great stuff one receives
when he/she was born-again must be continued on!
Even improved upon via co-operating with the Holy Spirit
as one becomes progressively sanctified (made holy).
See Romans 6:16 and 19, which tell us ...
slave of obedience >>> righteousness
slave of righteousness >>> holiness
holiness >>> eternal life
"without holiness no one will see the Lord"

As you do not wish to address the verses I post, I will leave it there

 

[Karola]

4 times in John 14, Jesus says:
"Those who love Me will obey (keep)
My commandments."

So, must one love Jesus to get into heaven?
If so, must one obey His commandments
to get into heaven?

I will just post this again. Do you obey the following commands of Christ, do you even try to obey them all? If not, according to what you wrote does it mean you do not love Jesus?


Would you not invite friends and family home for a meal, but rather the poor, lame, blind and beggars so you may receive your reward in Heaven?
If you ever fasted, have you ever dropped hints to anyone you were fasting?
If someone stole something of yours, would you give them more besides what they stole, with nothing but love in your heart for them?
Do you truly love your enemies, those who may be unkind to you or persecute you?
Do You leap for joy if you are persecuted?

 

[BCsenior]

I will just post this again. Do you obey the following commands of Christ, do you even try to obey them all? If not, according to what Jesus wrote does it mean you do not love Jesus?

Dunno ... best ask Jesus.
Happy now?

 

[Karola]

Dunno ... best ask Jesus.
Happy now?

I think it strange, you start a thread but don't want to address points put to you in it.
I would be happy, if people did not make comments as to what believers must do to attain to heaven, that they do not even try and do themselves. For anyone who assumes they are doing what they say others must do, can become crushed by burdens they cannot carry. The second greatest commandment is being ignored

 

[BCsenior]

I think it strange, you start a thread but don't want to address points put to you in it.
I would be happy, if people did not make comments as to what believers must do to attain to heaven, that they do not even try and do themselves. For anyone who assumes they are doing what they say others must do, can become crushed by burdens they cannot carry. The second greatest commandment is being ignored

Yes, that's why Jesus taught Paul during those 17 years in the desert places that he was to approach the
churches with the utmost tact to not discourage
the baby Christians!
Paul very tactfully mixes his dire warnings of losing salvation in with his copious amounts of edifications,
exhortations, encouragements, etc.
Also, several very hard to swallow spiritual Truths
(such as some are chosen while others are not)
are somewhat hidden in the NT ... for the same reason.
However, it's all in there, and Jesus can point to them all.

 

[Karola]

Yes, that's why Jesus taught Paul during those 17 years in the desert places that he was to approach the
churches with the utmost tact to not discourage
the baby Christians!
Paul very tactfully mixes his dire warnings of losing salvation in with his copious amounts of edifications,
exhortations, encouragements, etc.
Also, several very hard to swallow spiritual Truths
are somewhat hidden in the NT ... for the same reason.
However, it's all in there, and Jesus can point to them all.

I very much doubt you understand Pauls core message. The most dangerous churches, are those who preach holiness to a high degree, but fail alongside that, to also preach the core message of the person charged with being the chief exponent of the new covenant to the world.

 

[bcbsr]

Not necessarily friend. It is salvation by faith which produces works. James 2:14-26 John 15:1-10 Matthew 25:31-46 give evidence that a faith that does not produce works is not a saving faith.

But you said that works are necessary and therefore not simply a product or evidence of faith. That is let's say a person genuinely believes in Christ, then at what point is he saved? According to you it not when he believes, but rather when he what? Does all of Christ's commands? For you say that he must have works to be saved. Therefore it's salvation by works.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But you said that works are necessary and therefore not simply a product or evidence of faith. That is let's say a person genuinely believes in Christ, then at what point is he saved? According to you it not when he believes, but rather when he what? Does all of Christ's commands? For you say that he must have works to be saved. Therefore it's salvation by works.

No one receives salvation until they die or judgement day comes. A Christian is saved by faith. If he doesn’t do good works then he doesn’t have a saving faith. James 2:14 Did you read John 15:1-10? What is your interpretation of it? And why did Jesus condemn the goats in Matthew 25:31-46?

 

[Doug Melven]

Jesus said 4 times in John 14 ...
"Those who love me will obey (keep)
My commandments (plural)."

And there are many of them in the gospels.
It's all about having the right and acceptable
heart attitude ... trying and repenting when you slip.

We are saved by believing in Jesus.
When we repented, we stopped trusting ourselves to get us to eternal life and we now trust Jesus.
We obey Him, not to be righteous, but because we are righteous and love Him.

My thoughts are with the dozen of different NT verses
which say "to remain righteous in God's sight one must practice righteousness".

You should be able to show one if you say there are dozens.
Thereare no verses that say we must practice righteousness to become righteous.
Only someone who is righteous can do righteous works.
Even if a righteous person sins, they do not become unrighteous, because they are not under the law but they are under grace and God said He will not impute sin to His child.

We are saying that our on-going REPENTANCE
covers over our present and future sins.

The blood of Jesus covers my sin. 1 John 1:7 says
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Romans 5:9 says we are justified by the blood of Jesus.

Here is proof that God forgave all our sins.
Colossians 3::13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

We are to forgive others as we are forgiven. Paul is not saying people must do anything for us to forgive them, we are just supposed to forgive. That is how Christ forgave us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

We are saved by believing in Jesus.
When we repented, we stopped trusting ourselves to get us to eternal life and we now trust Jesus.
We obey Him, not to be righteous, but because we are righteous and love Him.


You should be able to show one if you say there are dozens.
Thereare no verses that say we must practice righteousness to become righteous.
Only someone who is righteous can do righteous works.
Even if a righteous person sins, they do not become unrighteous, because they are not under the law but they are under grace and God said He will not impute sin to His child.


The blood of Jesus covers my sin. 1 John 1:7 says
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Romans 5:9 says we are justified by the blood of Jesus.

Here is proof that God forgave all our sins.
Colossians 3::13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

We are to forgive others as we are forgiven. Paul is not saying people must do anything for us to forgive them, we are just supposed to forgive. That is how Christ forgave us.

Brother Doug what is your interpretation of these scriptures? John 15:1-10 Matthew 25:31-46 and James 2:14-26