Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
...In actual fact, the Jewish people today at their Wailing Wall are NOT praying at a wall of their former Temples. They are sanctifying the western wall of Fort Antonia that was built by King Herod but taken over by the Romans as their prime fortress in Jerusalem in 6 C.E. at the end of the earlier Herodian dynasty. The shrine on the other side of the Wailing Wall in the time of Jesus was NOT the Temple built by Herod. As a part of the Roman Praetorium, it necessarily possessed a Temple dedicated to the Roman Emperor and the Gods of Rome (or similar accepted divinities of the Roman pantheon) that all encampments of the Romans had near their center section. It is sad to see but the symbolic "heart and soul" of modern Judaism (as Jews are persistently calling it today) is the site of a former Roman Temple dedicated to Jupiter. The place was once holy to the very people who destroyed the real Temple in 70 C.E. This is occurring while the true site of their Temples lies forlorn and languishing in utter ruin and degradation in the Ophel part of the southeastern ridge. How ironic!...
In his book The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot, Ernest L. Martin presents his thesis that both the first and second Jewish temples were located south of the presently accepted Dome of the Rock location. His theory places the temple location in the ancient City of David over the Ophel Spring, and supports the belief that Jesus words when he predicted the complete destruction of the temple with not a stone left on another were literally fulfilled.1
Martins first proof of the location of the temple deals with the real location of Mount Zion. Any modern map of Jerusalem will correctly show the true location of the original Mount Zion, or City of David, at the southern end of the southeastern ridge of Jerusalem. Due to the efforts of W.F. Birch and the discovery in 1880 C.E. of the Hezekiahan inscription about the construction of the tunnel from the Gihon Spring to the southern end of the southeast ridge, the controversy over the location of Zion was finally settled. It was then determined that the southeast ridge was the actual site of Mount Zion and this was the true City of David. Dr. Martin contends that Jerusalem was built in ancient times around and over the Gihon Spring in order to have water form the only spring within a radius of five miles of the city. Unfortunately, says Martin, while scholars recognized the true site of Zion, they did not consider the location of the Temple in this correction and still consider the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount to be the location of the first and second temple. They do this, he says, in spite of the fact that many texts in the Bible identify Zion as equivalent to the Temple, and the Bible even indicates that the Temple was abutting to the northern side of the City of David. ...
Martin points to the Gihon Spring as his second proof for the southern location of the Temple. The Gihon Spring is the only spring within the city limits of Jerusalem. An eyewitness named Aristeas who viewed the Temple in about 285 B.C. stated that the Temple was located over an inexhaustible spring that welled up within the interior part of the Temple.2 The Roman historian Tacitus also gave a reference that the Temple at Jerusalem had within its precincts a natural spring of water that issued from its interior.3 Martin believes that this water source in the center of the Temple is the Gihon Spring south of the Dome of the Rock and on the southeastern ridge of Jerusalem.
The location of the Gihon Spring is also important. Aristeas said that a peson could look northward from the top of the City of David and could easily witness all priestly activities within the Temple precincts.4 Martin points out that the area of the Dome of the Rock is 1000 feet north of the original City of David and is much too far away for anyone to look down into the courts of the Temple. In addition, there has never been a natural water spring within the Haram esh-Sharif where the Dome of the Rock is located.
As was stated earlier Aristeas and Tacitus both stated that the Temple had an inexhaustible spring within its interior and the Gihon is the only spring in Jerusalem. Martin also points out that spring water is mentioned in numerous ways throughout the Psalms as the waters of salvation that come from the Throne or House of God. Spring waters were an essential part of Temple requirements and are to accompany any future Temple. (See Ezekiel 47:1, Revelation 21:2-6; 22:1, 17)
Interestingly, we have an eyewitness account by Hecateus of Abdera written near the time of Alexander the Great that tells us that the Temple was located nearly in the center of the City of David.5 Josephus said that the Lower City which was once the site of the City of David was on a ridge shaped like a crescent moon. The horns of this crescent pointed toward the Kidron Valley with the northern horn near the present southern wall of the Haram esh-Sharif and the southern horn just north of the confluence of the Valley of Hinnom. The exact center of this cresent-shaped ridge would have been at the Ophel Mound directly over the Gihon Spring.1 The Bible even tells us that the Temple was located in the center of Jerusalem.
Psalm 116:18, 19 I will fulfill my vows to the Lord in the presence of all his people, in the courts of the house of the Lord in your midst(center), O Jerusalem, Praise the Lord. (In Hebrew, the English word rendered midst means center in geographical contexts and is so translated by several versions.)
Martin also says that the destruction of the Temple after the Jewish/Roman War of 66 to 70 A.D. puts the Temple location south of the Dome of the Rock over the Gihon Spring. Jesus told his disciples, when describing the coming destruction of the Temple, that not one stone of the Temple and its support buildings would be left on top of another.
Matthew 21:1-2 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. Do you see all these things? He asked. I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.
Martin presents eyewitness accounts of both Josephus and Titus (the Roman general who conducted the war against the Jews) who give the description of utter ruin and thorough destruction of Jerusalem. Josephus and Titus mentioned that if they had not been in Jerusalem during the war and personally seen the demolition that took place, they would not have believed that there was once a city in the area.6 Josephus even described it as Jesus said it would be when he wrote of the destruction of Jerusalem following the war.
It [Jerusalem] was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was nothing left to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited.7
Martin explains as Josephus did why every stone was turned over in the city. It was customary for Jews to hide their gold and other valuables in the walls of their homes when their homes were threatened. The Temple itself was also the treasury of the Jewish nation and when the fires consumed the Temple and the city, the gold that was hidden in the walls melted and descended into the cracks and crevices of the stone foundations of the Temple. In order to recover the gold, the Roman army had the Jewish captives uproot every stone of the Temple and the whole of the City. This left Jerusalem a land of dislodged and uprooted stones.
According to Martin, though the Temple was completely destroyed, one man-made construction did come through the war, and is still in use today as the complex where the Dome of the Rock was built. This remaining building was used by the Tenth Legion after the war as their military headquarters when they remained behind to prevent any further revolutions. An eyewitness, Eleazer, the leader of the last remnant of Jews in Masada who finally committed suicide rather than fall into the hands of General Silva of the Tenth Legion three years after the main war was over, said that the Temple then lay in ruins and the City of Jerusalem was utterly destroyed. His comments follow:
It [Jerusalem] is now demolished to the very foundations, and hath nothing left but that monument of it preserved, I mean the camp of those [the Romans] that hath destroyed it, which still dwells upon its ruins: some unfortunate old men also lie upon the ashes of the Temple, and a few women are there preserved alive by the enemy [for prostitution purposes], for our bitter shame and reproach. 8
The remaining building still left standing, according to Martins theory, was Fort Antonia, the fortress built by Herod the Great that was much larger than the Temple in size. Josephus said it was as large as a city and could hold a full Legion of troops.9 Josephus also said that Fort Antonia was built around a massive and prominent outcropping of rock that was a notable protective feature within its precincts.10 This description fits perfectly with the present Haram esh-Sharif and the Dome of the Rock now covering that significant outcropping of rock. This rock was also called the Roman Praetorium and it was the place where Pilate sentenced Jesus to crucifixion. The rock was a significant spot in the fortress, and even the apostle John singled it out for comment regarding the judgement of Jesus. John called it the lithostrothon [a rock, on which people could stand and be judged,].11
if the temple wasnt on the temple mount, where was it?
The Temple was opposite the Mount of Olives.
Mar 13:3 ¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
Mar 13:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately,
Amazing information which was right there in the histories all the time, and has been proven.
The Dome of the Rock was not the Temple site, and the Wailing Wall is the remains of the Roman Fort Antonia, as described by Josephus, where 6,000 Roman soldiers were quartered!
the temple mount is opposite the mount of olives.
The Real Site of Herod's Temple in Jerusalemif the temple wasnt on the temple mount, where was it?
How the Ancient Sites Were Lost
Why can't we locate the true temple site today? If you visit Jerusalem today, you will se nothing but flattened ground south of the Haram. There are some building structures and a few roads there, but nothing conspicuous. The destruction of the southeastern ridge upon which had stood Mt. Zion and Ophel (the Temple site) took place in two stages:
First, during Maccabean times, the Maccabean leader Simon the Hasmonean razed Mt. Zion to ground level. The reason for this was the Syrians had encamped in David's City during the reign of Antiochus Epiphanus and they were able to harass the worshippers going to the Temple. The Temple itself could not be defended because of the Syrian presence. Nevertheless, Judas Maccabees managed to regain control of Jerusalem from the hands of Antiochus, and he cleansed the Temple in 164 BC after Antiochus had completely defiled it with a pagan statue of Zeus in the Holy of Holies, and sacrifice of swine on the altar. Simon, the younger brother of Judas, gained complete authority over Jerusalem some twenty years later, and he decided that Mt. Zion should not exist anymore. So David's City and the underlying older cities (Jebus and Migdol Edar (Gen. 35:21) were completely removed to the bedrock. Simon then transplanted Mt. Zion to the present site of Mt. Zion on the southwestern part of Old Jerusalem, outside the southern city wall. The so-called David's Tomb (adjacent to the Crusader building of the Last Supper) is nothing but a transplant of the original David's Tomb location.
Simon then proceeded to rebuild the Temple. Actually he moved the Temple site some what to the north and a new Holy of Holies and a new altar were built in place of the desecrated ones. After this he built a fort north of the Temple, the Baris, to protect the Temple. It was this fort that was modified and enlarged by Herod as Fort Antonio (the present day Haram-esh-Sharif site).
The second phase of the destruction took place when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and burned the Temple in 70 AD. The Romans made sure that not one stone stood upon another, and the Temple mount was completely leveled. There were scattered stones and pillars, of course. After the Jewish revolt in 135 AD, Hadrian built a Roman Temple of Jupiter at the Jewish Temple site and he had his statue there. It was Emperor Constantine who destroyed the Roman Temple complex.
The Jewish people were allowed to rebuild their Temple at the original site during the time of Constantine and Julian the Apostate. These were brief attempts did not last due to Christian influence. The site became once again ruins. It was from the rubbish heap of these ruins that Caliph Omar recovered what he believed to be the 'foundation stone' to build the Al Aqsa mosque (located on the southern end of the Haram).
Summary
The original city of Jerusalem was in the southeastern part of present day Jerusalem, on a crescent shaped ridge. The ridge had two mounds, one on the north and the other on the south. The Temple was built on the northern mound called Ophel, very near to the Gihon Spring. The southern mound was called Mt. Zion, upon which stood David's city. Solomon's palace was in between the two on raised ground. The walls around the square Temple platform were very high, the southwestern corner being about 450 feet high.
In Herod's time Fort Antonio which is about 600 feet north of the Temple platform was connected to the Temple premises by a double colonnade bridge on the western side. The present Haram-esh-Sharif was the original location of Fort Antonio which was a Roman encampment. The rock protruding a the center was considered sacred by early century Christians because Jesus had stood on it before Pilate; there was a Christian Church above it in the fourth to sixth centuries, but the Moslem rulers built the Dome of the Rock on the site.
Caliph Omar built the original Al Aqsa mosque on the southern end of the Haram as the 'new' Temple of Solomon. The Western wall of the Haram has no sacredness attached to it as present day Jews believe because it is the retaining wall of Fort Antonio and later modifications. The original sites of David's city and the Temple are completely lost due to the total removal of the southeastern ridge by Simon the Hasmonean who leveled Mt. Zion, and the Roman legions which destroyed the Temple.
More information on these items, please read Dr. Ernest Martin's monumental work, The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot (ASK Publications, 2000).
This is clearly wrong. Though the Jews are for the most part blinded to Messiah...THEY OUGHT TO KNOW WHERE THE TEMPLE STOOD.Amazing information which was right there in the histories all the time, and has been proven.
The Dome of the Rock was not the Temple site, and the Wailing Wall is the remains of the Roman Fort Antonia, as described by Josephus, where 6,000 Roman soldiers were quartered!
I only put a small bit of the information that is out there that proves that the Temple Mount is not the site of the Dome of the Rock.The Real Site of Herod's Temple in JerusalemThe Real Site of Herod's Temple in JerusalemHow the Ancient Sites Were Lost
Why can't we locate the true temple site today? If you visit Jerusalem today, you will se nothing but flattened ground south of the Haram. There are some building structures and a few roads there, but nothing conspicuous. The destruction of the southeastern ridge upon which had stood Mt. Zion and Ophel (the Temple site) took place in two stages:
First, during Maccabean times, the Maccabean leader Simon the Hasmonean razed Mt. Zion to ground level. The reason for this was the Syrians had encamped in David's City during the reign of Antiochus Epiphanus and they were able to harass the worshippers going to the Temple. The Temple itself could not be defended because of the Syrian presence. Nevertheless, Judas Maccabees managed to regain control of Jerusalem from the hands of Antiochus, and he cleansed the Temple in 164 BC after Antiochus had completely defiled it with a pagan statue of Zeus in the Holy of Holies, and sacrifice of swine on the altar. Simon, the younger brother of Judas, gained complete authority over Jerusalem some twenty years later, and he decided that Mt. Zion should not exist anymore. So David's City and the underlying older cities (Jebus and Migdol Edar (Gen. 35:21) were completely removed to the bedrock. Simon then transplanted Mt. Zion to the present site of Mt. Zion on the southwestern part of Old Jerusalem, outside the southern city wall. The so-called David's Tomb (adjacent to the Crusader building of the Last Supper) is nothing but a transplant of the original David's Tomb location.
Simon then proceeded to rebuild the Temple. Actually he moved the Temple site some what to the north and a new Holy of Holies and a new altar were built in place of the desecrated ones. After this he built a fort north of the Temple, the Baris, to protect the Temple. It was this fort that was modified and enlarged by Herod as Fort Antonio (the present day Haram-esh-Sharif site).
The second phase of the destruction took place when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and burned the Temple in 70 AD. The Romans made sure that not one stone stood upon another, and the Temple mount was completely leveled. There were scattered stones and pillars, of course. After the Jewish revolt in 135 AD, Hadrian built a Roman Temple of Jupiter at the Jewish Temple site and he had his statue there. It was Emperor Constantine who destroyed the Roman Temple complex.
The Jewish people were allowed to rebuild their Temple at the original site during the time of Constantine and Julian the Apostate. These were brief attempts did not last due to Christian influence. The site became once again ruins. It was from the rubbish heap of these ruins that Caliph Omar recovered what he believed to be the 'foundation stone' to build the Al Aqsa mosque (located on the southern end of the Haram).
Summary
The original city of Jerusalem was in the southeastern part of present day Jerusalem, on a crescent shaped ridge. The ridge had two mounds, one on the north and the other on the south. The Temple was built on the northern mound called Ophel, very near to the Gihon Spring. The southern mound was called Mt. Zion, upon which stood David's city. Solomon's palace was in between the two on raised ground. The walls around the square Temple platform were very high, the southwestern corner being about 450 feet high.
In Herod's time Fort Antonio which is about 600 feet north of the Temple platform was connected to the Temple premises by a double colonnade bridge on the western side. The present Haram-esh-Sharif was the original location of Fort Antonio which was a Roman encampment. The rock protruding a the center was considered sacred by early century Christians because Jesus had stood on it before Pilate; there was a Christian Church above it in the fourth to sixth centuries, but the Moslem rulers built the Dome of the Rock on the site.
Caliph Omar built the original Al Aqsa mosque on the southern end of the Haram as the 'new' Temple of Solomon. The Western wall of the Haram has no sacredness attached to it as present day Jews believe because it is the retaining wall of Fort Antonio and later modifications. The original sites of David's city and the Temple are completely lost due to the total removal of the southeastern ridge by Simon the Hasmonean who leveled Mt. Zion, and the Roman legions which destroyed the Temple.
More information on these items, please read Dr. Ernest Martin's monumental work, The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot (ASK Publications, 2000).
Boom. Exactly right. Martin nailed it. The Temple had to be over the Gihon spring for Temple rituals and sacrifices. Jesus said that it would be torn down and it was - which Josephus described to exacting detail. Sadly, the "wailing wall" is the remnant of the Roman fort Antonia.Exactly right. The late Dr. E. Martin published his book titled The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot back in 1997 now 15 years ago. I read it and confirmed his more important findings and concluded that he is 100% right. He said he initially got the idea from the young Mazar.
God has frustrated the Jews attempts on four occasions - this being the forth. He is never going to allow them to return to the Old Covenant. The present "wailing wall" is an important political and religious tool in order to maintain the old Jewish belief system and solidarity - and this untruth will someday be well known. Of course the Jewish orthodoxy will reject it. But Israel's day is coming. I expect a great revival in that country - maybe in my lifetime.
I just saw an ad for another book by a second professor who is using Martin's temple drawing on the cover. So it looks like someone else has picked up the torch. The martin book was to have a second edition - but was stopped by the demise of Martin.
Martins site is askelm.com
Amazing information which was right there in the histories all the time, and has been proven.
The Dome of the Rock was not the Temple site, and the Wailing Wall is the remains of the Roman Fort Antonia, as described by Josephus, where 6,000 Roman soldiers were quartered!
Great info......So why do the Jews of today pray at the wailing wall?The Romans, after the second Jewish revolt of A.D. 132, built a Temple dedicated to Jupiter on the exact location of the former ruins of the second Temple. They did it for the reason of forever making it impossible for the Jews to build a temple in that location. It is on the foundation stone of that Temple dedicated to Jupiter that the current Dome of the Rock was built. The Dome of the Rock currently sits squarely on the location of the former holy place of the Jewish Temple. It is the original location of the Temple of Jerusalem and can be shown to be such.
All of this speculation about different Temple locations is a modern mythology brought about by radical and crazed futurist Zionism and Dispensationalism. It is the height of projecting modern desires onto the pages of history.
During the last 50 years thousands of Christians and Jews have prayed at the remains of a Roman fort in the city of Jerusalem, which was built to house the thousands of Roman soldiers needed to police the city during the time of Christ.
Why? Because they have ignored the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:1-3, and Luke 19:41-44, and they have also ignored recent archeological evidence.
Recently a Roman Amphitheater was discovered underground at the "western wall" of the fort.
Read the book "Temple" by Robert Cornuke, which reveals the work of Israeli archeologist Eli Shukron, who became famous for rediscovering the Pool of Siloam.
See the links below about the Roman Amphitheater and Roman Fort Antonia.
Archaeologists just discovered an ancient lost theatre near the Western Wall in Jerusalem
The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia
So, the Western wall is the wailing wall?
If so, the Jews have been nodding to just an 'ordinary' wall? The wall of the fort?
If the "wailing wall" is part of the temple... then Jesus lied when He said that no rock would be left on top of another....
The "wailing wall" is easily mistaken for part of the temple. However, new archeological digs in the area south of the Dome on the Rock have shown evidence of being the rightful placement of the temple.
This would line up with scripture and Satan built his Dome in the wrong spot. Also, this would make the building of the new temple more plausible due to the fact that the dome can remain intact.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?