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Proof that the Book of Mormon is a fraud!!!

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CaliforniaKid

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Apex said:
Where does it say this, please.
Mormon 9:32-33

And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the Reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.
And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.


Yet Hebrew is a more compact language than Egyptian hieroglyphics or hieratic.

-CK
 
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Alma

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Catholic Evangelist said:
The native americans are extremely closely related to the Japanese. Heres just one reason why:

On their rear ends, all Japanese people have a blue mark. Nobody except the Native Americans bear this resemblance.
The "mongolian spot" appears commonly among darker skinned people including Japanese, Chinese, Africans, Amerinds, and even some caucasians. The claim that Amerinds are Japanese due to the presence of the mongolian spot is pretty far-fetched. Friends of mine recently adopted Russian babies who also have the mongolian spot.

From another web site dealing with health issues, note is comment about who can have the spot and what anthropological significance it carries (0).


http://www.drgreene.com/21_1143.html
Who gets it?
At least one Mongolian spot is present on the great majority of babies of Native American, African, Asian, or Hispanic descent. They are also present in about one in ten fair-skinned infants.

Despite the name, Mongolian spots have no known anthropologic significance, except for being more common in darker-skinned infants.

Alma
 
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CaliforniaKid said:
Mormon 9:32-33

And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the Reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.
And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.

-CK
Hebrew may be a more compact language than the egyptian that we know of, but we dont know exactly what kind of egyptian they wrote in. It says that they altered the Ehgyptian, so it could of been more compact. It also says that their Hebrew had been altered as well. Their Hebrew could of been not as compact as the Hebrew we know of.
 
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Surfungus

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Quite frankly I'd have to try to care any less about DNA and my religion. Yes, I believe what the church teaches, but that's for my own reasons and it's more than fine to disagree with it. However, when it gets right down to it (for me anyway), it's not about DNA evidence and scientific proof and all that. It's just a bunch of beliefs and ideas that have helped make my life better and more fufilling. Where some indians came from isn't really all that important to me. Very interesting, yes. But it's nothing I'm going to rest my personal beliefs on.
 
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CrownCaster

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Surfungus said:
Quite frankly I'd have to try to care any less about DNA and my religion. Yes, I believe what the church teaches, but that's for my own reasons and it's more than fine to disagree with it. However, when it gets right down to it (for me anyway), it's not about DNA evidence and scientific proof and all that. It's just a bunch of beliefs and ideas that have helped make my life better and more fufilling. Where some indians came from isn't really all that important to me. Very interesting, yes. But it's nothing I'm going to rest my personal beliefs on.
If all you are looking for is to better your life here on earth then you probably have found the best place for that. The lds church has many wonderful programs and is a great humanitarian effort. Good on ya if that is what you are looking for. What I am looking for though is eternal life. Now, if you are not following Jesus of the Bible then you are not going to have eternal life. Mormonism does not mesh with the Bible and therefore must be presenting a different Jesus or not presenting Him accurately. Salvation is my focus. This life is fleeting.
 
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carolbob

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Apex said:
Hebrew may be a more compact language than the egyptian that we know of, but we dont know exactly what kind of egyptian they wrote in. It says that they altered the Ehgyptian, so it could of been more compact. It also says that their Hebrew had been altered as well. Their Hebrew could of been not as compact as the Hebrew we know of.
How many kinds of Egyptian are there?:confused:
 
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markie

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jezusfreak said:
I just wanted to share with you all that there is now solid proof that the book of mormon is a fake. There is NO way that they can deny it now,:amen: (well I guess that you could, but that would be crazy).

The proof you ask??? Is DNA!!! The Indians are not the descendants of Lamanite or Nephi...they did not come from Isreal...the Indians are descended from Asia. There is a wonderful video out that documents the whole thing....a must see.
Titled...DNA vs. The Book of Mormon. If you would like the web link just pm me and I will get it for you. You can buy it or watch it on line.

For those of you that are Mormon....there are even Mormon anthropologists and Bishops on it that are saying that your religion has some major problems...they are only hoping that it doesn't get brushed under the carpet like everything else...ie...the book of Abraham.
I could have told you that the Indians came from asia. I thought that was common knowledge.but where did lamanite and nephi come from?
 
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Serapha

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CrownCaster said:
That is a very good point. The Hebrew people did not exactly like the egyptians too much. I dont think the Jewish people of today would write their records in German.
Hi there!

:wave:


That is not exactly true... there are time periods in history where there was a great deal of commercial trading in the levant with Egypt.... one proof of that... the marriage of Solomon to the daughter of the Egyptian ruler.

On the other hand, King Herod feared an invasion from Egypt, thus Masada and Herodium were fortresses built to shore up the defenses in the desert.

In about 400 BC, there was a strong trade business with the Nabeteans and all the middle east.... but that time frame just doesn't fit with any of the writings in the bom.


~serapha~
 
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CrownCaster

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Apex said:
I said I belive there are two or three known. If you really want to know for youre self you can look it up. No offense but I belive you are capable of doing this.
So basically what you are saying is that you opened up and said something you have no basis for. Okay, I can deal with that. I didnt think you could come up with a source and I wont be looking for one as I know the statement is untrue. Thanks, and you dont have to use biting sarcasm when you are in the wrong.
 
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CrownCaster

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Serapha said:
Hi there!

:wave:


That is not exactly true... there are time periods in history where there was a great deal of commercial trading in the levant with Egypt.... one proof of that... the marriage of Solomon to the daughter of the Egyptian ruler.

On the other hand, King Herod feared an invasion from Egypt, thus Masada and Herodium were fortresses built to shore up the defenses in the desert.

In about 400 BC, there was a strong trade business with the Nabeteans and all the middle east.... but that time frame just doesn't fit with any of the writings in the bom.


~serapha~
Yes, but all that aside, the Hebrew people were absolutely reverent about how they wrote down the things of God and I do not believe that they would have used the egyptian language to do so. these people devoted their very lives to transferring the writings of the prophets down through the generations and as far as I know we do not have any of the manuscripts that were written in any type of egyptian.
 
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CaliforniaKid

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carolbob said:
Is hieratic script the same as "reformed Egyptian" or even close? Is it possible that Hebrews would use this language, if so how probable?
Actually, Egyptologists sometimes refer to both hieratic and demotic scripts as "reformed Egyptian."

As far as Hebrews using either of these scripts, I think that would be very unlikely. They might have used Egyptian writing around 1000 B.C. and before, since Hebrew was fairly young as written languages go. The earliest example of Israelite writing we have is a 12th century tablet with some Canaanite letters on it.

William Dever reports, "In one of them was found an ostracon (that is, a piec of inscriped pottery) on which some eighty characters are written in ink, arranged in five lines. The only legible line, at the bottom, is an abecedary, or a list of the letters of the alphabet -- written, unusually, from left to right. Although the script is Canaanite, the writer may have been an Israelite schoolboy practicing his letters. (If this were a take-home exercise, I'd give him a C-.) If this is indeed the case, the 'Izbet Sartah ostracon is our earliest real Hebrew inscription -- and also important evidence for the earliest spread of literacy." (William Dever, What Did the Biblical Writers Know and When Did They Know It?: What Archaeology Can Tell Us About the Reality of Ancient Israel, p. 83)

That wasn't even specifically Hebrew writing. We don't have any evidence of a specifically Hebrew written language until a little later. It might have made sense for the Hebrews to use hieratic and demotic scripts during this era, since Egypt was the most significant nearby power. Most of the Canaanite cities that Israel conquered under Joshua and his successors were Egyptian vassal-states that used Egyptian writing. On the other hand, the Hebrews could also have used some form of Akkadian. By 600 B.C. Akkadian was pretty standard. It was used throughout the ancient world, including Palestine, especially in politics. Remember that Assyria had conquered most of the known world in 722.

We have a few scattered examples of ostraca from Tel Arad (south of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and Hebron) from the 6th and 7th centuries B.C. that have hieratic script on them, and at least one contains both Hebrew and hieratic side-by-side. I am not intimately familiar with the ostraca, but most of them were letters. I do know, however, that there were Egyptian mercenaries serving in the Israelite fortress at Arad (it was the gateway to the kingdom of Edom), and that probably accounts for most of the hieratic. This is a fairly isolated find. Hieratic was undoubtedly used by some people in Palestine at the time, especially since Judah was appealing to Egypt to protect it from Assyria, Babylon, and its other neighbors. But preserve their scriptures in hieratic? It ain't gonna happen, folks.

The Tel Arad ostraca have prompted Kerry Shirts to declare, "Tel Arad demonstrates that Jews and Egyptians were hopelessly mixed in Lehi's day of 700-600 B.C." But Shirts' conclusion is completely unprecedented. Mormon apologists will grasp desperately at anything that might lend even the least support to the Book of Mormon. Even evidence that Australians found their way to the New World before Columbus leads Book of Mormon apologists to declare victory and close the books.

The fact is that almost all the Jews living in Palestine during the 6th and 7th centuries BC would have spoken and written Hebrew, if they knew how to write at all.

Sorry about the long answer to your very short question.

-CK
 
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carolbob

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XVII said:
wow...i see a fine line between the normal christians and the mormons...i thought here at christianforums this would be a friendly polite debate...just looking at the first few pages...brutal...
All right everyone on the count of three lets get him! ARRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!! :D
 
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