Proof that the Book of Mormon is a fraud!!!

[ST:DS9]

Is this just another way of telling me that we can pick and choose what we want or what WE believe to be right and wrong? It seems to me that if your prophet said it, that it would be gospel. If he is TRULY speaking for God, Doc.....God doesn't lie nor does he change...he is the same from everlasting to everlasting!!!





This doesn't change anything, Doc. Just because your loyalties change that doesn't mean that your blood lines do as well. Do you think that I have the word STUPID written on my forhead? The fact remains that they all, the Lamenites the Nephites the Jeridites etc....all came from Isreal...therefore they all would have had Hebrew genes. The BoM, (as I already stated), clearly says that there were NO OTHERS in the land. To me this is just another way for your religion to change things to make them fit. I am very sad for you because.....you have no idea of who God really is.



Explain to me, please, how when someone dissent's, or changes loyalties, this changes their genetics? Nephi and Lamen were brother's, so how in the world would they have different genes? I used to be somewhat prejudice, does that mean that when I was my genes were, let's say white for the fun of it, and then when I changed my views and realized that color was of no boundries, my genes changed, to let's say black, for even more giggles? Come on, Doc...what you are saying makes no sense at all!!



Possible? The BoM teaches that they ARE the ancestors of the American Indians...NOT the POSSIBLE ancestors of them. If they DID have OTHER ancestors besides Lehi and his family....tell me where in your book does it teach this? From what I have already posted...it is clear to me that, according to the BoM, there were NO OTHER people around...it (the land) was for them ONLY.


I already covered this and I think that the BoM "scriptures", (I hate to call them that), tell the story better than I could. They speak for themselves...or are you really trying to tell me that they are OPEN to interpretaion?

Humbly His,
Sandy

Even Joseph Smith taught there were other poeple other then what is stated in the Book of Mormon that came to the contintent. In the Book of Mormon it is stated that the continent was promised from the Lord to other people from other countries. Just because it doesn't state when, or who they were doesn't mean they didn't come. But it has been taught that other have came, since the 1800s, and this was before they even knew about genetics. Just seems that this new evidence just proves the Joseph Smith was right when he said that other people have came to the continent. There were others who have said the same thing, though I can't remember who said it.

 

[Doc T]

From cover to cover...NO I have not.

You've said all you need to say.



Doc

~

 

[jezusfreak]

There has not been a study done by a unbiased group. The study that Murphy was part of, was funded by an anti mormon group. Do you think that if the outcome had been different, that one word would have come out from Murphy? Do you think that he would have started going back to the church he had not gone to for ten years? No I would not think so. The Book of Mormon claims to have people who are from the House of Israel. That is a big house, and has many branches. When they came to the New world, there were already people here.

Thomas Murphy himself stated that the scholors that did the DNA testing had no agenda of their own...they did not approach it to "PROVE" that the BoM was a fraud. Therefore I would say that they were very unbiased. The way that you say that "anti mormon group", these are true Christians that love the Lord Jesus and whether you want to believe it or not, they love all the mormon people and only want to see them come to the knowledge of the truth. That they have been deceived by Joseph Smith and ALL his predecessors, that the BoM is a work of fiction...and that their souls are in danger of spending all of eternity in hell away from the presence of God. I myself have been called a "Mormon hater", this truly breaks my heart, as I DO NOT hate Mormons...I hate the lie that they are basing their eternal future on.

I am not sure what you are saying as far as the outcome and Murphy being different. I have no clue WHY he would go back to the church...if he did...he stated that he wanted the church to "COME CLEAN" and that the LDS faith has a BIG PROBLEM on their hands. If Living Hope Ministries truly misqouted or changed anything that he said, then why hasn't he taken them to court. I truly find it hard to believe that this group of Christians is lying...what do they really have to gain by doing so? NOTHING.

As for the Book of Abraham, I have studied it for a few years, and I admit, I am slow in trying to piece all there is. This is a very complicated topic, and like the genetics can be interpreted so many different ways. You need to get a better balance of this topic as well. The best I have read is by Kerry Shirts. He has his own website. He has not only pro LDS websites but also anti websites as links. So I will say this, in my opinion, we do not have the Papyri that Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Abraham. The fragments we do have were part of the original papyri that was purchased, but they do not represent what was translated. Also understand that there are many things scholars are still learning about the Egyptian language.

There is nothing complicated about it. The Mormon church has had the papyrus in their posession since 1967. The papyrus is the same that Joseph used to "interpret" the so called book of abraham. When it was found in the Museum it had a letter of authenticity with it from none other than Emma Smith, Joseph's wife. She clearly states that it is what he used to interpret them. Not only that but the pictures on the papyrus match those that are in the PoGP. You can't deny it...there is no way. Genetics CAN NOT be interpreted in so many different way, it is what it is. The papyrus has been translated by several Egyptologist's and they all have come to the same conclusion....it is not the book of abraham...and it IS the very papyrus that Joseph used. I choose to believe the experts in this area. Please don't tell me that I need to get a better balance on this topic, the truth is the truth. It is not relative it is absolute...it is not open to interpratation.

 

[CrownCaster]

Jezusfreak have you actually read the BofM? Because your characterization of it would indicate that all you have read is the ant-Mormon protrayal of it.

Doc

~

I have read it three times, cover to cover and I would have to say that Jezusfreak is right
on target.

 

[Doc T]

I have read it three times, cover to cover and I would have to say that Jezusfreak is pretty much on target.

We already know that you didn't understand what you read.

Doc

~

 

[CrownCaster]

We already know that you didn't understand what you read.

Doc

~

You have no idea about me. WHen I read that rag, I was seriously trying to see it for truth. Sorry, it didnt meet the challenge. This is typical mormon garbage, if you didnt get holy heartburn then you didnt understand or have enough faith. Spare me your exalted diatribes because I am not interested. Seems to me that it is you that does not understand a thing about God or His ways let alone His Word, the Holy Bible.

 

[jezusfreak]

You've said all you need to say.



Doc

And you've not said anything at all. You avoided my questions regarding the Bible.

Sandy

 

[usetheforce]

and it IS the very papyrus that Joseph used.

No it's not. If it was, then why didn't the Church have it?
Don't you know that that scroll that was found wasn't even 1/5th of the scrolls Joseph had?
So, what makes YOU such an expert.
The scroll after all doesn't say on it, "The Book of Abraham".
It's simply some papyri that just happens to have one of the Book of Abraham's pic's on it. A pic by the way which is "common" in the Egyptian world.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that it's related at all to the Book of Abraham, that's simply a Leaping Assumption by people like you.

 

[CrownCaster]

just happens to have one of the Book of Abraham's pic's on it. A pic by the way which is "common" in the Egyptian world.

Well, you said a mouthfull there. That is exactly right. It is very common. It is called the book of breathings and has nothing to do with Abraham. It is a burial text. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[jezusfreak]

[

QUOTE=usetheforce]No it's not. If it was, then why didn't the Church have it?
Don't you know that that scroll that was found wasn't even 1/5th of the scrolls Joseph had?
So, what makes YOU such an expert.
The scroll after all doesn't say on it, "The Book of Abraham".
It's simply some papyri that just happens to have one of the Book of Abraham's pic's on it. A pic by the way which is "common" in the Egyptian world.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that it's related at all to the Book of Abraham, that's simply a Leaping Assumption by people like you.

YES it is. The church didn't have it because they thought that it burnt in the great Chicago fire. Little did they know at the time that Emma had given it to a museum. Don't you know that what you are saying is what the church leaders want you to believe. Don't you know that there are several Egyptologist's that have studied the papyrus and they have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are the very same papyrus that Joseph used...his own wife, Emma wrote in HER handwriting that they were the papyrus that he used. No the scroll doesn't say the book of abraham on it...Joseph is the one who put it into the PoGP and "CALLED" it the book of abraham. He placed the photo there...I am looking at it right now...and it is the same as what the "PRO'S" looked at. Yes, I know that the egyptians used pictures to define what they are saying..I never said that they didn't. They also used characters for words...and this is what Joseph was translating...these characters and trying to put them with the picture. It is kind of like a child that is trying to learn how to read...you look at the pictures to try and figure out what is going on. The sad thing here is that Joseph knew nothing about the egyptian way of life...he cut the head off of the character #3, (which, when compared with the papyrus that the museum found) matched up with this very picture, the head in it's original would have been a head of a jackel.

The evidence is all there...the letter from Emma stating that it was what he used...and the fact that the picture is the very same one (plus and minus a head on character #3) used in the PoGP. The cut marks on the original match up with where the head is different on character #3 in the picture in the PoGP. I would post the link here where you could view this video, but I am unable to do so at this time.

I never claimed to be the expert. I take my knowledge of it from viewing the dvd on the book of abraham...as done by the experts....an NO, they were NOT ANTI-MORMONS!!! These college graduates that are now egyptologists, ( let me guess, you would say that they are also LEAPING at ASSUMPTIONS?)...have no religious cross to bare whatsoever. They only read it and told the world, (well except those that are so deep in the LDS faith that they can't even think for themselves) what it was that they found. Just last week we had the local MORMON BISHOP and his council over...and I was so shocked to find out that they knew NOTHING of the papyrus even being in the posession of the church. Boy were they shocked when we told them about the "irrefutable" truths. If you would allow yourself to see the truth...you to would be surprised.

And may I ask you one other thing? Next time you post to me...please don't attack me the way that you did in your first post to me.

 

[jezusfreak]

[

QUOTE=CrownCaster]Well, you said a mouthfull there. That is exactly right. It is very common. It is called the book of breathings and has nothing to do with Abraham. It is a burial text. Thank you for clearing that up.

Thank you CrownCaster....you brought a true smile to my face today.

In Christ
Sandy

 

[usetheforce]

I never claimed to be the expert. I take my knowledge of it from viewing the dvd on the book of abraham...as done by the experts....an NO, they were NOT ANTI-MORMONS!!!

Read the Review by Kerry Shirts of that "DVD-video" of your so-called experts.
I didn't say the experts were anti-mormon, just those who do things like produce the DVD you watched and made misinformed false conclusions from such certainly are.
And were are the "Mormonism" experts in your video?
For your information, LDS already know the Papyri found doesn't contain the Book of Abraham.
As to Emma, your people misused the information. Of course, your not really interested in Truth, your only interested in what the anti-christs tell you is true about Christs Gospel, just like they did in Christ's time on earth and for awhile after.

 

[Breetai]

No it's not. If it was, then why didn't the Church have it?(the Abraham papyrus)

Maybe it's in the same place of the golden plates.

Even Joseph Smith taught there were other poeple other then what is stated in the Book of Mormon that came to the contintent.

Even if some other people came over to America, there would still be traces of Jewish NDA. There is none. Jews did not travel to America in ancient times.

 

[Breetai]

For your information, LDS already know the Papyri found doesn't contain the Book of Abraham.

Joseph Smith said that it did. Did he lie?

As to Emma, your people misused the information. Of course, your not really interested in Truth, your only interested in what the anti-christs tell you is true about Christs Gospel, just like they did in Christ's time on earth and for awhile after.

Like Joseph Smith.

The Book of Mormon is a document written in the 19th century, not hundreds of years earlier.

 

[CrownCaster]

[
Thank you CrownCaster....you brought a true smile to my face today.

In Christ
Sandy

Your welcome. God bless.

 

[usetheforce]

Even if some other people came over to America, there would still be traces of Jewish NDA. There is none. Jews did not travel to America in ancient times.

Yes there is. You need to read my recently created thread called "Europeans Colonized America...."

 

[CrownCaster]

Yes there is. You need to read my recently created thread called "Europeans Colonized America...."

Yeah, go read that thread so you too can be attacked by 'usetheforce'

 

[Breetai]

Yes there is. You need to read my recently created thread called "Europeans Colonized America...."

I read it. It doesn't say Israel, except where it appears to be added in by you.

 

[usetheforce]

Excuse me? Why do you bear false witness?
Do a google search on any major phrase in the artile and you'll find the article.
Since when was "bolding" something considered adding?
And please tell me how in the sentence structure it "appears to be added?
And tell me again how you really think LDS are "liars"?

 

[carolbob]

You have no idea about me. WHen I read that rag, I was seriously trying to see it for truth. Sorry, it didnt meet the challenge. This is typical mormon garbage, if you didnt get holy heartburn then you didnt understand or have enough faith. Spare me your exalted diatribes because I am not interested. Seems to me that it is you that does not understand a thing about God or His ways let alone His Word, the Holy Bible.

Holy heartburn!!! LOL! I love it!

I don't know why LDS are still trying to justify the truthfulness of the BoA, there is nothing left to stand on, it apparently is not the most correct book on earth. No disqualifing the DNA evidence or scientists will justify the BoM. You're holding on to false hope. You can cut down all the evidence all you want, but it still stands no matter how hard you try not to believe, it won't go away. There is nothing worse than having your religion, your culture pulled out from under you (LDS), but you should be glad you are still on this earth to know the real Jesus while it is not too late, instead of dying with the falseness of LDS.