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And how do you know this is true?
If I was heading in a wrong direction, I would want someone to save me straightaway, instead of tell lies about me, and only after being called on them repeatedly try and pretend to be concerned for me.
Stop trying to ingratiate yourself. You cocked this one up, Elioenai. Deal with it, instead of insisting that we owe you some response to this touchy-feely crap.
Because I have tried it, many many many times, and found it to be the only true wisdom and knowledge which enlightens one's heart and mind.
Yes you are correct, "religion" can pretend to know and give answer to those important questions.
When you lump a living, loving, intimate relationship with Christ in with these "religions", you misconstrue what it means to be a disciple of Christ.
I for one agree with all of you in that religion is merely a means by which men attempt to answer those important questions of life. Some religions are closer to the truth than others. There is only one truth however, and that Truth has been the number one cause for division and unity amongst men for nearly 2,000 years.
How are you going to be saved straightaway if you be unwilling?
Just not in any way that you can demonstrate, apparently. Does not this phrase mean anything to you?
That just begs the question: what makes "Why do we exist?" a valid question?
<looks for a good case for such a question - sees none>
You said you would worship it, not me.
Yes I know.
However, I do not have to demonstrate the things I am saying to you because you know them to be true.
Which hardly justifies the telling of the number of lies you did about atheists.
I know I'm a lot less unwilling than I would have been if you hadn't done that, if you had actually listened to those that you were witnessing to.
There's at least one Christian on this board who's gotten my story out of me - how did he manage that? Well, when he made a stupid mistake and implied that I wasn't interested in truth, I called him on it, he apologised. That at least indicated he had a modicum of humility, which was a good starting point.
Something you could stand to learn.
If telling you the truth is evidence of not being humble in your sight, then I am not humble nor ever will be in your sight.
We are to speak the truth in love. If in the process of doing this, you become resentful or offended by my words which are spoken in sincerity and truth, then the fault lies within you, not myself.
Christ offended a great many men while speaking to them the truth in love. So offended and jealous and envious and resentful of Him in fact, that they had Him crucified!
Yet He prayed for them, while they were nailing Him to the cross.
Therefore in this it is made manifest who is acting in love and who is responding in hate.
Wait, what? You don't...have to?
Do you mean to say that you can, but you won't?
That is correct.
Many many people sought after proof and signs from Jesus as a confirmation of His claims upon their lives.
He responded to them by telling them a parable at the end of which, it is shown that if one is unwilling to receive and act according to the light and illumination that they have, then no sign or proof shall convince them.
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich mans table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abrahams bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us. 27And he said, Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my fathers house 28for I have five brothersin order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment. 29But Abraham said, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them. 30But he said, No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent! 31But he said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.
Italics and bold mine.
That is correct.
Many many people sought after proof and signs from Jesus as a confirmation of His claims upon their lives.
He responded to them by telling them a parable at the end of which, it is shown that if one is unwilling to receive and act according to the light and illumination that they have, then no sign or proof shall convince them.
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich mans table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abrahams bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us. 27And he said, Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my fathers house 28for I have five brothersin order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment. 29But Abraham said, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them. 30But he said, No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent! 31But he said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead. Luke 16:19-31
Italics, underlining, and bolding mine.
Danyc said:So you actually believe that if I saw a miracle for myself, express evidence of God's existence, I wouldn't believe?
And this is why you do not demonstrate for me? Because it would not make any difference?
I am irrevocably lost?
So why did you even come here, Elio? What was the damn point?
Did you think some philosophical argument would convince us more efficiently than a real demonstration?
I am just about fed up with you. And so, I think, is everyone else.
Given your demonstrated ineptitude with logic, I don't expect you to notice that offence also correpsonds with being wrong, so you receiving it has nothing necessarily to do with being truthful.
And in this case you aren't. You are making claims about the attitudes of atheists here that are simply not true and that you know nothing about.
If you want to keep repelling people from your faith - that's your lookout.
Precisely. If nothing can be presented either demonstratively or philosophically then this has just been one long exercise in self-aggrandising for our apologist wannabe.
Elioenai26 said:You know Gadarene, I could respond in kind to you, but I wont.
Just know that there are people who care for you and want to see you do good in life.
Telling you the truth in love is my duty, yea, it is my delight and pleasure to help you.
But I cannot make you surrender your life to Christ, that is something that you must choose to do.
I pray you find The Way.
So you actually believe that if I saw a miracle for myself, express evidence of God's existence, I wouldn't believe?
And this is why you do not demonstrate for me? Because it would not make any difference?
I am irrevocably lost?
So why did you even come here, Elio? What was the damn point?
Did you think some philosophical argument would convince us more efficiently than a real demonstration?
I am just about fed up with you. And so, I think, is everyone else.
God speaks reality as we know it into existence, and then speaks to us in His word's.
This is the only true illumination, this is the knowledge and wisdom which comes from above and is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. James 3:17
If you really cared, you wouldn't have lied about us. And if you actually are a representative of Christ, I want nothing - nothing at all - to do with it. That is your fault. That is your responsibility.
Elioenai26 said:The point is simply that if you are not willing to see the truth, then no one can show it to you.
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