Proof that Gay Relationships are Wrong

[Monica child of God 1]

Everything else you guys are saying is just over and over again. You are taking the Fathers and such as the only source for info.

And you are just saying the same thing over and over again too. "I, I, me, me, my." Believe me, I would rather have the Fathers to stand on than the sinking sand of my own reasoning.

And it is not just the Fathers. It is the witness of Scripture and the whole history of Christian morality and behavior. Logic will not bear your reasoning. How can an act be consistently labeled immoral by Christians for 2000 years and be a part of your "Christian morality?" Nonsensical, sloppy thinking rooted in the most base of human emotion.

If you want us to stop posting, stop responding and/or close the thread. But when you say stuff that displays the gaping holes in your thought processes and your willingness to exchange the truth of God for a lie, we are going to challenge you on that. You want to go one mile, I will go 10 with you.

"If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles." --Matthew 5:41

M.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Prayer is the only thing we can do for Justin, for we can do nothing without God.

 

[ArmyMatt]

but I am sure that you will admit that you have messed up desires (all of us do). and I am sure that you will admit that there are people out there who think that their desires are fine and that they are not hurting anyone, when in fact they do. we see this in everyone all the time. I am sure that you have thought many things that you believed were right at the time, only to find out later that you were dead wrong. and this is not just you, this is everyone. so if we can admit, and if your honest you will too, that man's screwed up desires can blind him, why in the world do you trust yours in regards to this?

notice that the rest of us are NOT looking to ourselves to provide the counterpoints. it is this saint said this, Scripture says this, or this monk underwent this, etc. none of us are trusting our own opinions. none of us only said, well you see homosexuality as okay but we just see it differently. you are the only one who is solely looking to himself in this, and yet I am sure that we could point out a whole myriad of bad choices that people made when they looked to themself.

 

[Blonde]

Justin, you discovered something powerful at that monastery, didn't you?
That you actually have choices to make for yourself. And that you bear responsiblity for the state of your life. Misery up till now it seemed was someone else's doing.......but you learned that it was all your own doing, even if by submission and deference to others choices for you.
You've never been responsible for your own life and choices before, huh?
Quite a step you took learning that. That power changes everything.
Now you really enter the arena of life, of the flesh and the Spirit.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

this is why handmaiden (I think) was talking about when she was against modernism. modern Western Christianity wants nothing to do with the Cross. modern Christians want nothing to do with struggle, which is why our world is so broken. we embrace things that are against Christianity, and still think of ourselves as Christian. Christ tells us Himself that many will say Lord, Lord in the end and He will say depart from me I never knew you. because it is he who does the will of the Father who comes into the Kingdom.

see, what you are doing is conforming God to you, rather than the other way around. there is zero evidence anywhere from Scripture or Christian history that homosexuality is good behavior. so what you are doing is taking the parts of Christianity that you like, then throwing away the parts that you don't like. you are conforming God to you, instead of you to God. your desires are defining Him.

God is not some buffet where you get to pick and chose.

Yep, that's exactly what I meant. Right on.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Prayer is the only thing we can do for Justin, for we can do nothing without God.

For once, my friend, we agree 100%.

 

[Andrew21091]

Those who do not heed the Fathers and the Holy Scriptures cannot be close to God. You asked for proof that gay relationships are wrong and you were given it but you choose not to listen and you have decided to be your own guide.

I'm done with this thread since there is no point for me to post anymore.

 

[xenia]

I have seldom seen such delusion. Lord have mercy on your soul, Justin.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I have seldom seen such delusion. Lord have mercy on your soul, Justin.

This has driven home to me how important it is to have the teachings of our Faith close to our hearts. I am saying this about myself before anyone else. The only way to stay grounded in Christ is by frequent Divine services, prayer, reading Holy Scripture and the writings of the Fathers and Mothers. Without those things, delusion waits at every turn like a prowling lion waiting to devour us.

M.

 

[Greg the byzantine]

I have seldom seen such delusion. Lord have mercy on your soul, Justin.

Not long ago Justin "invited" demons into himself. Obviously they've gained a foothold.

 

[xenia]

We are often tempted by the devil soon after our baptisms. Our Lord, after His baptism, was tested by Satan. Christ passed his test. You are failing yours, Justin.

However, the good news is that God gives make-up tests. All is not lost- you can repent and be restored.

 

[AureateDawn]

Not long ago Justin "invited" demons into himself. Obviously they've gained a foothold.

2 and a half years ago, hon. And I was exorcised when I was baptized.

It really saddens me, though it is expected, that all of you are so hardcore against me, saying this is demonic, delusion, and that I cannot be close to God. Because I can.

"Those who do not heed the Fathers and the Holy Scriptures cannot be close to God." - Andrew

People on this very forum have said that there are possibly people of other religions, even atheists, that are closer to God. The Spirit works in different ways. So that quote is not true.

Ah, well. This is all very discouraging, but expected, and I have other friends helping me get over the hurtful things you all are saying, even though I know it is out of love and I am thankful for that.

Blonde - spot on!

 

[xenia]

I don't usually participate in Justin's homosexuality threads. I am of the opinion that we are encouraging him to blaspheme when we continually respond to his bantering. He has a priest, he has a godfather, he's been to a monastery, that is enough. When we give him a platform for his foolishness we are provoking him to harden his heart and sin even more. This is not a matter that can be rectified on an Internet forum. Leave Justin to God (and his priest and godfather) and pray for him. I would request that this thread be shut down.

 

[xenia]

Justin is like the person who wants to join the Vegetarian Society yet wants to eat cheeseburgers. "I AM a vegetarian! I AM! I can eat all the meat I want and still be a vegetarian and you guys are just being mean!"

 

[AureateDawn]

No, i'm not, xenia, hon. I just realized being a vegetarian wasn't for me.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Romans 6:1-4 (New King James Version)

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

As many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ (Gal 3:27)

Justin when you were Baptized and Chrismated you put on Christ. You publicly stated that you renounce Satan and all of his works, and that you want to have a relationship with Christ. In doing so, you began the process to allow Christ to transform you, and allow theosis to begin.

It's almost as if you are saying "Okay God, you can come into my life, but only under these terms and conditions." God is not subject to us, but rather WE are subject to GOD.

You say you want to seek a relationship with a man, yet you are rejecting the most important relationship a person can have in life; that with GOD.
You are saying you are Orthodox for now. As if to imply you will stay Orthodox until something better comes along.

You have said in the past that it is hard for you to choose a relationship with God over a relationship with a boyfriend because you can not joke around with God, cannot cuddle with Him, cannot have romantic dates with Him. You are putting terms as to what you want God to do for you, but what have you done for HIM?

On April 11th of this year you publicly renounced Satan and all His works to live for God, but have you really done so? Have you allowed God to come into your life and transform you on HIS terms, or are you still waiting for Him to appear on YOUR's?

Today the Church celebrates the life of St. Mary Magdalene, a woman who put her life in the hands of our Lord to deliver her from the presence of seven demons. When all but one of the Apostles stayed away from Christ during His crucifixtion, she was there. When others fled the empty tomb believing the body had been stolen, she looked again to see that He was there, and He is Risen!

I know that you may feel at times that God is not there for you in your life, and that He doesn't care for you. I would encourage you to take the cue from St. Mary Magdalene and look again. He IS there.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It really saddens me, though it is expected, that all of you are so hardcore against me, saying this is demonic, delusion, and that I cannot be close to God. Because I can.

"Those who do not heed the Fathers and the Holy Scriptures cannot be close to God." - Andrew

People on this very forum have said that there are possibly people of other religions, even atheists, that are closer to God. The Spirit works in different ways. So that quote is not true.

okay, for starters we are not against you, we are against this kind of action. the fact that so many people are worried should show that most here do care for you as a brother in Christ, and none of us want you to do anything self destructive. if I desired to have sex with a girl who is not my wife, and I posted a thread asking why I shouldn't, I would hope that everyone on TAW would come and try to get me to stop, because I would hope that they would not want me to do anything that could hurt myself morally and spiritually. and if I told you I never wanted to have sex with a girlfriend of mine, I'd be lying.

now, onto the second point, yes it's true that atheists and Muslims and Hindus can be closer to God than many of the rest of us. those, however, are those who are ignorant of the Truth of Orthodoxy and those who have not had a real experience of Jesus Christ.

you, however, cannot make that claim since you were baptized and chrismated. you know what is right and what is wrong, and you are willingly walking away from the Church. now you can say that you are not, but anyone who refuses Communion for a relationship with another person is walking away from the Church. now, why do I say that? because the Church is the Body of Christ, and it is that Holy Communion in the Sacrament that is the communion that makes us one flesh with Him.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I don't usually participate in Justin's homosexuality threads. I am of the opinion that we are encouraging him to blaspheme when we continually respond to his bantering. He has a priest, he has a godfather, he's been to a monastery, that is enough. When we give him a platform for his foolishness we are provoking him to harden his heart and sin even more. This is not a matter that can be rectified on an Internet forum. Leave Justin to God (and his priest and godfather) and pray for him. I would request that this thread be shut down.

Justin is like the person who wants to join the Vegetarian Society yet wants to eat cheeseburgers. "I AM a vegetarian! I AM! I can eat all the meat I want and still be a vegetarian and you guys are just being mean!"

You are so right.

"Those who depart from the Orthodox Faith, dazzled by destroying heresies, enlighten by the light of Your holy wisdom, and unite them to Your Holy, Apostolic, Catholic Church."

Amen

M.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Justin, I just wanted to say one thing.. hope it's alright.. as I'm not part of TAW.. but I've been reading your threads.

I think one really important part of our walk with God is being humble and obedient. This means being ready to submit to God's will no matter what it is. It also means submitting to the Church. Anything else shows pride... and I say this as a person who has to battle pride every day of my life.

Have you tried being totally open to the possibility that Orthodoxy is right about homosexuality, and you are wrong? Have you say to God... "Your will be done, Lord, not my own".

Do you believe everything else the Orthodox Church teaches? If you do, why are you doubting this one thing? If you believe it's right about everything else, wouldn't it also be right about this? I know I'm not Orthodox but Catholic, but Catholics see homosexuality in much the same way.

please try to at least pray about this, if you won't listen to your priest. (though I highly advise you to listen to him, God has placed him in your life for the good of your soul). What would happen if you prayed every day for a week that God would reveal the truth to you, WHATEVER the truth happens to be, being completely open to the possibility that you are wrong about this?

I know this must be very difficult for you. But please understand all these people here are trying to help you, because they love you as their brother in Christ.



Also, how do you feel about never being able to receive the Holy Eucharist again? Is it not Christ Himself? Is He not worth giving up any sacrifice, no matter how difficult? He gave up His life for you! Are we not called to give up our lives for Him? those who lose their lives will find them..those who seek to save their lives will lose them.. what if this trial is a cross that God gave you to bear....to sanctify you, to make you holy?

it honestly breaks my heart that now you are away from the Sacraments, cause they really give us so much strength to live the Christian life, to follow God... when we're away from them, we struggle..greatly. I've been there..

 

[AureateDawn]

Justin, I just wanted to say one thing.. hope it's alright.. as I'm not part of TAW.. but I've been reading your threads.

I think one really important part of our walk with God is being humble and obedient. This means being ready to submit to God's will no matter what it is. It also means submitting to the Church. Anything else shows pride... and I say this as a person who has to battle pride every day of my life.

Have you tried being totally open to the possibility that Orthodoxy is right about homosexuality, and you are wrong? Have you say to God... "Your will be done, Lord, not my own".

Do you believe everything else the Orthodox Church teaches? If you do, why are you doubting this one thing? If you believe it's right about everything else, wouldn't it also be right about this? I know I'm not Orthodox but Catholic, but Catholics see homosexuality in much the same way.

please try to at least pray about this, if you won't listen to your priest. (though I highly advise you to listen to him, God has placed him in your life for the good of your soul). What would happen if you prayed every day for a week that God would reveal the truth to you, WHATEVER the truth happens to be, being completely open to the possibility that you are wrong about this?

I know this must be very difficult for you. But please understand all these people here are trying to help you, because they love you as their brother in Christ.



Also, how do you feel about never being able to receive the Holy Eucharist again? Is it not Christ Himself? Is He not worth giving up any sacrifice, no matter how difficult? He gave up His life for you! Are we not called to give up our lives for Him? those who lose their lives will find them..those who seek to save their lives will lose them.. what if this trial is a cross that God gave you to bear....to sanctify you, to make you holy?

it honestly breaks my heart that now you are away from the Sacraments, cause they really give us so much strength to live the Christian life, to follow God... when we're away from them, we struggle..greatly. I've been there..

I SO have, for years now, said "Thy will be done". I just don't believe the CHurch's teaching on it anymore.

And ya, I don't like not having the Eucharist. But alas. C'est la vie. =/