Proof that Gay Relationships are Wrong

[AureateDawn]

I do trust Him, and what He says. You think God has defined it as sin. Or, rather, the Church does. My own, and others, beliefs differ.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

yeah, but here is the problem, God has defined it as sin. it doesn't matter what any of us think. if I want to lust after women, I break communion with God. if you want to enter into a homosexual relationship, you break communion with God. I mean, just a few posts ago you stated you were fine with giving up Holy Communion.

see these aren't any of our opinions, this is the teaching of the Church. look at this whole thread and you will see saints' lives, Scripture, Patristic quotes, the whole nine yards all testifying to the Truth that homosexuality is sin. forgive me, but all you have said is that you think it's okay. well God's opinion on things is clear, that homosexuality is sinful.

how can you say that you trust God, when you don't trust what He says?

QFT

 

[ArmyMatt]

I do trust Him, and what He says. You think God has defined it as sin. Or, rather, the Church does. My own, and others, beliefs differ.

do you believe Orthodoxy is THE True Church?

and can you give me any evidence, more than just an opinion, that homosexuality is good from the Christian point of view?

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

I do trust Him, and what He says. You think God has defined it as sin. Or, rather, the Church does. My own, and others, beliefs differ.

If you trust what He says, why don't you trust the scripture that says that sex between two men is sinful, and marriage is soley between a man and a woman?

 

[AureateDawn]

do you believe Orthodoxy is THE True Church?

and can you give me any evidence, more than just an opinion, that homosexuality is good from the Christian point of view?

The Gay Christian Network Here is a good place to start. What is mentioned in the Bible, as I have already said, doesn't reflect a modern view of homosexuality and a loving relationship with children.

Plus, love is love. How can love be a sin, y'know? I am sorry, but loving someone else and raising children is not a sin, and does not hinder or hurt my relationship with God.

However, nothing I say will matter, because all you have to say is "The Church teaches it is wrong, and the Church is the sole authority" whereas I don't believe that. We all believe different, God loves us all, and we all come to God in unique ways. Who knows where I will be 20 years down the road. Maybe at a Unitarian church, maybe at no church an worshiping God at home. Maybe Hindu. Who knows! But right now I am following God and coming to Him on the path of Orthodoxy.

 

[AureateDawn]

If you trust what He says, why don't you trust the scripture that says that sex between two men is sinful, and marriage is soley between a man and a woman?

YouTube - Betty Bowers Explains Traditional Marriage to Everyone Else

It is comical, and not meant to be a huge thesis on the subject, but it has my answer in a neat little nutshell (especially at the end - at least get through to the last 30 seconds if you HAVE to skip the first few mins) in a comical way.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

The Gay Christian Network Here is a good place to start. What is mentioned in the Bible, as I have already said, doesn't reflect a modern view of homosexuality and a loving relationship with children.

Plus, love is love. How can love be a sin, y'know? I am sorry, but loving someone else and raising children is not a sin, and does not hinder or hurt my relationship with God.

However, nothing I say will matter, because all you have to say is "The Church teaches it is wrong, and the Church is the sole authority" whereas I don't believe that. We all believe different, God loves us all, and we all come to God in unique ways. Who knows where I will be 20 years down the road. Maybe at a Unitarian church, maybe at no church an worshiping God at home. Maybe Hindu. Who knows! But right now I am following God and coming to Him on the path of Orthodoxy.

This is your problem. You are not seeking truth, you are seeking opinions to suit yours. You are not looking to find what Christians have believed since Christ's Resurrection, you are looking to find what suits you.

You are not interested in pleasing God; rather you are interested in pleasing yourself.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

YouTube - Betty Bowers Explains Traditional Marriage to Everyone Else

It is comical, and not meant to be a huge thesis on the subject, but it has my answer in a neat little nutshell (especially at the end - at least get through to the last 30 seconds if you HAVE to skip the first few mins) in a comical way.

Am I supposed to take this seriously? THIS is what you're providing as evidence that what the Bible says is wrong? Please. Don't waste my time.

 

[AureateDawn]

If you trust what He says, why don't you trust the scripture that says that sex between two men is sinful, and marriage is soley between a man and a woman?

This is your problem. You are not seeking truth, you are seeking opinions to suit yours. You are not looking to find what Christians have believed since Christ's Resurrection, you are looking to find what suits you.

You are not interested in pleasing God; rather you are interested in pleasing yourself.

You highlighted "modern view" in my post as if to say that modern views and modern things are bad. ;

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

You highlighted "modern view" in my post as if to say that modern views and modern things are bad. ;

That's exactly what I was saying.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Plus, love is love. How can love be a sin, y'know? I am sorry, but loving someone else and raising children is not a sin, and does not hinder or hurt my relationship with God.

but that's the problem, love as is defined in 21st century America is not love in many respects. have you ever seen those men who dominate their wives, yell at them and belittle them, abuse them emotionally, and yet if you would ask these men, they would say that they love their wives. the wives would say the same and say that they love their husbands. what about an 80 year old woman and her 50 year old son? can they be physically intimate because they love each other (and she is too old for kids so there won't be any deformed children)? do you honestly think that those two kinds of relationships strengthen a relationship with God?

you see, you don't show your love for God when you agree with Him. you show your love for Him when you disagree with Him. you see, by saying that the Bible is outdated on it's view on homosexuality, you are saying that when you have to make a choice to follow God or follow yourself, you'd rather follow yourself.

 

[AureateDawn]

Modern does not equal "bad" and "wrong"

And Army - you can believe that, too. I have my own beliefs and am coming to God in my own way.

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, then have you talked to your priest about this?

and that video is really crude and disgusting, and that lady did what atheists try to do: she caricatured Christian belief and then attacked the caricature, rather than dealing with what Christians actually believe.

 

[AureateDawn]

Ya, I have, Matt.

 

[rusmeister]

Modern does not equal "bad" and "wrong"

And Army - you can believe that, too. I have my own beliefs and am coming to God in my own way.

Hmmm.
1) You have your own beliefs. We are recommending beliefs and a way that are not our own.

2) "Modern" (synonym 'contemporary') From Romance languages "moda" = fashion
"Contemporary" = con tempore, literally, "with the times", from "temporary", or "doomed to pass with the times"

So, not necessarily bad, but definitely related to fashion, what is popular (in the modern sense) and what is temporary or passing.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ya, I have, Matt.

I believe you, I am just scratching my head as to where this is coming from. I mean I know your struggles, but to be considering abstaining from Communion after just being baptized is a tad puzzling to me. and I also hope you know that those of us on TAW care about you and don't want to see you do anything self destructive.

 

[Memento Mori]

However, nothing I say will matter, because all you have to say is "The Church teaches it is wrong, and the Church is the sole authority" whereas I don't believe that. We all believe different, God loves us all, and we all come to God in unique ways. Who knows where I will be 20 years down the road. Maybe at a Unitarian church, maybe at no church an worshiping God at home. Maybe Hindu. Who knows! But right now I am following God and coming to Him on the path of Orthodoxy.

Modern does not equal "bad" and "wrong"

And Army - you can believe that, too. I have my own beliefs and am coming to God in my own way.

You are a moral and theological relativist now? I don't buy it. I've checked out your old posts to get a feel for who you are, and I call bull. This is justification plain and simple, whether you will step back and see that or not.

I returned to Christianity in the spring because a few years ago I took the same road you are taking right now. It was too hard (and is still hard) to live with homosexuality, so I embraced it and became more liberal in my beliefs. Eventually I moved on from organized religion in an attempt to be more "enlightened," when in reality I just became a "child of my age," following all the modern currents of thought on abortion, morality, God, etc., and indulging in all sorts of popular pseudo-spirituality like The Secret and Eckhart Tolle.

You will lose Christ eventually. I guarantee it. Please, take the time to step back, disentangle yourself from any defensive thinking, and examine your motives for this change in attitude. Is it genuinely inspired by God, or are you just tired of the struggle and wanting to love and be loved?

 

[AureateDawn]

Matt - it comes from being tired of being treated second class and being told that my LOVE is wrong. Cause it isn't.

HisAgain - Thanks, but no, I won't lose Christ. I am talking to a really sweet guy who has been a gay Christian for years. Being gay and allowing myself to love doesn't send me down a spiraling path to Hell, immorality, or anything of the like.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Justin,

If you put a sexual relationship with a man before the worship of Christ in partaking of the Eucharist, you have become an idolater. Anything that is put before Christ in importance in your life is an idol. If you don't think that is a big deal, think again. Idolatry is the opposite of all things good, holy and righteous. You cannot be both an idolater and a Christian.

The teaching of the Church on homosexuality was given by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit inspired the Scriptures (OT and NT). The Spirit nourishes the Church. Do you think you know better than the Spirit?

M.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Being gay and allowing myself to love doesn't send me down a spiraling path to Hell, immorality, or anything of the like.

How do you know? How does this guy know? You know better than the Church, the martyrs and the saints? Really?

M.