Proof "Queen of Heaven" IS actually Pagan. And Mary was NOT sinless.

[AntoineL]

When the bible mentions a "Queen of Heaven" it isn't positive:

Jeremiah 7:18 No wonder I am so angry! Watch how the children gather wood and the fathers build sacrificial fires. See how the women knead dough and make cakes to offer to the Queen of Heaven. And they pour out liquid offerings to their other idol gods! NLT

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Jeremiah 44:17-25 We will do whatever we want. We will burn incense and pour out liquid offerings to the Queen of Heaven just as much as we like—just as we, and our ancestors, and our kings and officials have always done in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. For in those days we had plenty to eat, and we were well off and had no troubles! 18 But ever since we quit burning incense to the Queen of Heaven and stopped worshiping her with liquid offerings, we have been in great trouble and have been dying from war and famine.

19 “Besides,” the women added, “do you suppose that we were burning incense and pouring out liquid offerings to the Queen of Heaven, and making cakes marked with her image, without our husbands knowing it and helping us? Of course not!”

20 Then Jeremiah said to all of them, men and women alike, who had given him that answer, 21 “Do you think the Lord did not know that you and your ancestors, your kings and officials, and all the people were burning incense to idols in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 22 It was because the Lord could no longer bear all the disgusting things you were doing that he made your land an object of cursing—a desolate ruin without inhabitants—as it is today. 23 All these terrible things happened to you because you have burned incense to idols and sinned against the Lord. You have refused to obey him and have not followed his instructions, his decrees, and his laws.”

24 Then Jeremiah said to them all, including the women, “Listen to this message from theLord, all you citizens of Judah who live in Egypt. 25 This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies, the God of Israel, says: ‘You and your wives have said, “We will keep our promises to burn incense and pour out liquid offerings to the Queen of Heaven,” and you have proved by your actions that you meant it. So go ahead and carry out your promises and vows to her!’

This title referred to Ishtar, an Assyrian and Babylonian goddess also called Ashtoreth and Astarte by various other groups. She was thought to be the wife of the false god Baal, also known as Molech. The motivation of women to worship Ashtoreth stemmed from her reputation as a fertility goddess, and, as the bearing of children was greatly desired among women of that era, worship of this “queen of heaven” was rampant among pagan civilizations.

I know i'm using scripture-only, but no where in the bible does God/Christ mention a "Queen of Heaven" being present. Nowhere in the word of God is Mary mentioned as the "Queen of Heaven".This is purely man-invented tradition and scripture trumps man-made tradition.

God alone rules in heaven. He does not share His rule or His throne or His authority with anyone. The idea that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the queen of heaven has no scriptural basis whatsoever.

Mary was a godly young woman and she was chosen to bear the Savior of the world. That doesn't mean she was in any way divine, nor was she sinless, nor is she to be worshiped. All followers of the Lord God refused worship. Mary was still a follower of Christ herself and she needed a savior and she needed Christ's grace like everyone else.

Even Peter and the apostles refused to be worshiped (Acts 10:25–26; 14:13–14).
The holy angels refuse to be worshiped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9).

The response is always the same: “Worship God!”.
To offer worship, reverence, or veneration to anyone but God is nothing short of idolatry.

Mary’s own words--(Luke 1:46–55) reveal that she never thought of herself as “immaculate” or deserving of veneration;. She was relying on the grace of God for salvation:
“And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.”

Only sinners need a savior, and Mary recognized that need in herself. If she were sinless, then why would she say this?
​

Jesus Himself issued a mild rebuke to a woman who cried out to Him, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you" (Luke 11:27), replying to her,-- "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." By doing so, He curtailed any tendency to elevate Mary as an object of worship.
​

He could have said: “Yes, blessed be the Queen of Heaven!” But He did not.
He was affirming the same truth that the Bible affirms—there is no queen of heaven, and the only biblical references to the “queen of heaven” refer to the goddess mentioned above.​

There is only Father God, not "Queen Mother." God alone rules in heaven. He does not share His rule or His throne or His authority with anyone.

 

[AntoineL]

I want to make clear that this is NOT an intended malicious attack on Catholics. This is simply an exposure of myth and misconceptions.

 

[LaSorcia]

I'm sure you are well-intentioned, and don't want people to be in theological error, but this kind of post makes me sad. Periodically, there are posts like this that set out to prove that a tenet of another denomination is wrong and anti-biblical.

My views are these:
1-There is no denomination that has every point of doctrine correct. To think otherwise is hubris.
2-If you strongly disagree with some theology of a denomination, don't join it.
3-Everyone would happier and the body of Christ would be stronger if we united on our similarities rather than criticizing our differences.

Thanks for listening.

 

[AntoineL]

I'm sure you are well-intentioned, and don't want people to be in theological error, but this kind of post makes me sad. Periodically, there are posts like this that set out to prove that a tenet of another denomination is wrong and anti-biblical.

My views are these:
1-There is no denomination that has every point of doctrine correct. To think otherwise is hubris.
2-If you strongly disagree with some theology of a denomination, don't join it.
3-Everyone would happier and the body of Christ would be stronger if we united on our similarities rather than criticizing our differences.

Thanks for listening.

Please do not miss the point and dodge what im trying to say. This is not about "truth is only what you think it is therefor it is the truth" relativist approach.This is about promoting sound doctrine. I know this isn't politically correct to say but God stands by the truth.

Please read the whole thing

 

[Armoured]

Could it possibly be that the phrase "Queen of Heaven" is a phrase that has been used at different times by different people to refer to more than one entity? Nah, couldn't be that simple.

 

[brinny]

*subscribing*

 

[football5680]

Mary is called the Queen of Heaven because Jesus is the King and in Israel the mother of the King was the Queen. The Bible doesn't call Mary the Mother of God but we know that Jesus is God and Mary is his mother so this title fits her and the same logic can be applied to the title of Queen of Heaven. The Bible says that Mary will give birth to a son and he will be given the throne of David and his reign will be forever. So the Kingdom will have a Davidic structure which means that Mary, who is the Mother of the King will be the Queen. It has nothing to do with authority. When Solomon was King his mother sat on a throne to his right, but she was not the King so she could only make requests and in the end only Solomon had the authority to exercise power.

 

[Standing Up]

Solomon denies Bathseba's request (1 Kings 2:21-24). There's no sense of RC's subsequent Mariology there.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Mary is called the Queen of Heaven because Jesus is the King and in Israel the mother of the King was the Queen. The Bible doesn't call Mary the Mother of God but we know that Jesus is God and Mary is his mother so this title fits her and the same logic can be applied to the title of Queen of Heaven. The Bible says that Mary will give birth to a son and he will be given the throne of David and his reign will be forever. So the Kingdom will have a Davidic structure which means that Mary, who is the Mother of the King will be the Queen. It has nothing to do with authority. When Solomon was King his mother sat on a throne to his right, but she was not the King so she could only make requests and in the end only Solomon had the authority to exercise power.

So, where does that leave God?

 

[football5680]

So, where does that leave God?

Your question doesn't make sense.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Your question doesn't make sense.

Here is the situation. We have heaven set up as a Catholic theocracy with Jesus Christ as King and Mary as Queen. God, the Father, apparently has no role in this theocracy, because He is never mentioned. So, is there any role for him in this theocracy or is He just an observer?

 

[Open Heart]

The idea that Mary is Queen of heaven is based on the vision of her clothed in the sun, standing upon the moon, and having a crown of 12 stars.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The idea that Mary is Queen of heaven is based on the vision of her clothed in the sun, standing upon the moon, and having a crown of 12 stars.

Quite true. However, this begs the question concerning God's position in heaven if His Son is the King and Mary is the Queen.

 

[heatedmonk]

I believe you are confusing two things here in your address of Ishtar of the ancients, and Mary the mother of God and her sinless state.

Firstly, and this is my personal opinion of course and that alone, I feel that if I keep to the council of God in my life I don't feel the need to condemn other Christians who are in a denomination not my own. I don't feel the need to tell someone who is Catholic those things you purport as true here and in your own opinion that firstly, it is right to do so.

I wouldn't see it as a means of changing a Catholic person's mind about their faith. To deconvert them from the church of Rome unto "my truth" in Christ. Rather, in the reading of this it smacks of assault, insult, and disrespect. However, as I said, it is but my opinion alone. Guide gently the heart one seeks to move and it may indeed move. But smash it with a mallet and it shall hardly pulse again.

As for Mary, you might consider delving into origin language, as I term it, which in this point of reference would be ancient Hebrew. (linked for you here) And due to your remarks about the scripture wherein Mary speaks of savior and were she truly sinless she would need no such thing.

Mary is not Ishtar.

However, when God's word tells me she was sinless she was so.

God's truth guide you to peace in all things.

When the bible mentions a "Queen of Heaven" it isn't positive:
.....

 

[Open Heart]

Quite true. However, this begs the question concerning God's position in heaven if His Son is the King and Mary is the Queen.

It is in the OT tradition of the Queen Mother. In an age where a King may have had hundreds of wives, it was his one and only mother who ruled by his side.

 

[prodromos]

It is in the OT tradition of the Queen Mother. In an age where a King may have had hundreds of wives, it was his one and only mother who ruled by his side.

The King's mother did not "rule" by her son's side. She had no authority of her own but had to ask of the King, just like anybody else. Obviously she had the advantage of being near and dear to her son, but that does not translate into authority.

 

[prodromos]

And due to your remarks about the scripture wherein Mary speaks of savior and were she truly sinless she would need no such thing.

Mary needed saving from death, not from sin.

 

[Standing Up]

It is in the OT tradition of the Queen Mother. In an age where a King may have had hundreds of wives, it was his one and only mother who ruled by his side.

This is now debunked, if you folks would bother to read scripture, rather than uphold false tradition.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It is in the OT tradition of the Queen Mother. In an age where a King may have had hundreds of wives, it was his one and only mother who ruled by his side.

Again, where does God, the Father, fit into your neat picture of the King and Queen being the Son and Mary?

 

[Open Heart]

Again, where does God, the Father, fit into your neat picture of the King and Queen being the Son and Mary?

I'm not quite sure what you are asking. Christ is called the King. Mary is called the Queen Mother. She is called the Queen of Heaven because of the heavenly imagery used in John's vision in Rev 12.