Promise of a Gentile Messiah

Lulav said:

I know some would argue but I think he was saying that They (the Samaritans) were focused on the wrong place and only had the Torah to live by, no prophets they followed.

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I am not concerned with what some would say. Yeshua stated that this Samaritan woman didn't know what they worshiped but the day will come when they will know the truth and follow it worshiping in spirit and in truth.

Lulav said:

Actually I already spoke of the Samaritans, they were not Gentiles they were of Jacob so of course they were awaiting a Messiah.

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Were Samaritans part of Israel during Christ's time?

Secondly Abraham was not a 'Goy' as all were Goyim at that time. Abraham was of Shem however and of the Messianic line from Noah. Israel was not Jewish either, they were not declared a nation until after they left Egypt.

What that means is from Abrahams line, through Isaac only would the seed come that would bless the whole earth. This was from the redemption from the sin in the garden to which all creation was struggling under.

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Both Noah and Abraham were Gentiles. After Abraham was called from his pagan homeland, God promised Abraham that he would be the father of many nations (not just Israel) and that all the nations of the earth would be blessed through His seed, Jesus Christ, because he had obeyed the commands of God.

To claim that only the nation of Israel were promised the Messiah would be false, since the prophecies concerning the Messiah were around even before the nation of Israel was ever in existence.

Lulav said:

Still is his name.

I understand you consider him a Gentile Messiah, but why would the Gentiles have a Jewish Messiah? The writings say he came for his people, Israel.

How do we know our Jewish Mashiach has not arrived yet? Can we be so sure, maybe we missed him?

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We have a different concept of mashiach, that's all. And since only Christians accept Jesus as messiah, it's correct and proper to call him Gentile's Messiah. He might have been Jewish by birth, but that's all. What followed is so far removed from the Temple and Rabbinic Judaism, his place of birth is really immaterial. Unless, I am mistaken and Christianity still obeys the Mosaic Law. Like Jesus supposedly did.

Lulav said:

This is not speaking of the Samaritans.

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Yes it is. They had their own synagogues, and openly claimed to be Jews. Who else do you think it would be?

Lulav said:

The messenger of G-d said this:

The angel said:
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

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Again Lulav this is the exact same argument you made before. It does not say "only" Israel here either.

2 Chronicles 34:6-9 implies that during King Josiah’s reign there were Israelites still in the land. In time, “Samaritans” came to mean the descendants of those left in Samaria and those brought in by the Assyrians. By the time of Yeshua “Samaritan” referred to one who belonged to the religious sect that flourished in the vicinity of ancient Shechem and Samaria and who held to certain tenets distinctly different from Judaism.

David Ben Yosef said:

Yes it is. They had their own synagogues, and openly claimed to be Jews. Who else do you think it would be?

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You might wanna check out John 8:37-47.

annier said:

Again Lulav this is the exact same argument you made before. It does not say "only" Israel here either.

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CJB
Mat 10:5 These twelve Yeshua sent out with the following instructions: "Don't go into the territory of the Goyim, and don't enter any town in Shomron,
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Isra'el.

KJV
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

There was no need for Yeshua to say the word "only," it was plainly stated by implication and deduction.

yedida said:

CJB
Mat 10:5 These twelve Yeshua sent out with the following instructions: "Don't go into the territory of the Goyim, and don't enter any town in Shomron,
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Isra'el.

KJV
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

There was no need for Yeshua to say the word "only," it was plainly stated by implication and deduction.

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Yedida, there is nothing in the above about Saving only Israel. Whereas there have been plenty of posts already showing that he came to save Gentiles as well. He went to the Jews first, not only.

annier said:

Yedida, there is nothing in the above about Saving only Israel. Whereas there have been plenty of posts already showing that he came to save Gentiles as well. He went to the Jews first, not only.

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...thus fulfilling the Scriptures. Jesus had to speak to the Jews first so that they (Israel), in turn, may be a light to the Gentiles.

Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Acts 13:46-48

Lion King said:

...thus fulfilling the Scriptures. Jesus had to speak to the Jews first so that they (Israel), in turn, may be a light to the Gentiles.

Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Acts 13:46-48

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Need two or three witnesses... have any other collaboration?

visionary said:

Need two or three witnesses... have any other collaboration?

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In the book of Matthew, you have Christ commissioning the apostles to go preach the Good News to the Gentiles.

Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:16-20

Lion King said:

In the book of Matthew, you have Christ commissioning the apostles to go preach the Good News to the Gentiles.

Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:16-20

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yedida said:

CJB
Mat 10:5 These twelve Yeshua sent out with the following instructions: "Don't go into the territory of the Goyim, and don't enter any town in Shomron,
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Isra'el.

KJV
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

There was no need for Yeshua to say the word "only," it was plainly stated by implication and deduction.

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Yes, this is true. There was no New Covenant during Jesus lifetime. Jesus is a Jew, and during his lifetime, He was under the Laws of Moses. Had Jesus taught any other Covenant other than the Mosaic Law, He would have been violating the Mosaic Covenant, and thereby did not teach what we Christians call the New Covenant. In fact, the Pharisees charged Jesus with violating the Mosaic Law, a charge which Jesus strongly defended himself against. Jesus ministry during His life was only to the Jews, and He showed the best approach for keeping all the commandments of Moses. The Sermon on the Mount was addressed to His fellow Jews. Yeshua addressed gentiles, telling them they are unworthy of eating the bread God set aside for His People, the offspring of Judah. He referred to gentiles as dogs unworthy to receive the bread God has for His people, the offspring of Judah. Yeshua did heal gentiles because when anyone comes to Him seeking mercy, God is merciful.

Matt 15:21-28
Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, "Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed."

23. But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, "Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us." But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

25. But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, "Lord, help me!" And He answered and said, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." But she said, "Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus said to her, "O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed at once. NASU



From John 5:33-47

33 "You have sent to John, and he has testified to the truth. 34 "But the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. 35 "He was the lamp that was burning and was shining and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light.

36 "But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John ; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish -the very works that I do -testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.

37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. 38 "You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.

39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life ; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. 41 "I do not receive glory from men ; 42 but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves. 43 "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 "How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God ? 45 "Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father ; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. 46 "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. 47 "But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words ?"

Yeshua kept the entire Mosaic Law throughout his life, then a very strange thing happened, He was crucified on a cross and Jesus died at the age 33, even though He never sinned, Yeshua did not receive the rewards of keeping all of the Mosaic Laws as applied to Him, instead, Yeshua suffered the punishments required for all Jews whom ever violated the Mosaic Law, and through Yeshua, gentiles whom accept the atonement of Yeshua will also enter the Kingdom That God prepared for His children, and created at the time He created the Cosmos. The Cosmos is a fiery furnace that removes our impurities, and the Kingdom where all His Children 'the sons of Israel will be greatly blessed, and gentiles like me whom accepted 'The Gift' through accepting the blood of the PERFECT LAMB OF GOD, atoning blood of Yeshua.

Upon Yeshua's death, came the fulfilling of the Prophecies of Zechariah Chapter 11:

The burning of Herod's Temple.

11: 1 Open your doors, O Lebanon, That a fire may feed on your cedars. 2 Wail, O cypress, for the cedar has fallen, Because the glorious trees have been destroyed ; Wail, O oaks of Bashan, For the impenetrable forest has come down. 3 There is a sound of the shepherds' wail, For their glory is ruined ; There is a sound of the young lions' roar, For the pride of the Jordan is ruined.

The Diaspora:

4 Thus says the LORD my God, "Pasture the flock doomed to slaughter. 5 "Those who buy them slay them and go unpunished , and each of those who sell them says, 'Blessed be the LORD, for I have become rich !' And their own shepherds have no pity on them. 6 "For I will no longer have pity on the inhabitants of the land," declares the LORD ; "but behold, I will cause the men to fall, each into another's power and into the power of his king ; and they will strike the land, and I will not deliver them from their power."

God cancel's the Mosaic Covenant

7 So I pastured the flock doomed to slaughter, hence the afflicted of the flock. And I took for myself two staffs : the one I called Favor and the other I called Union ; so I pastured the flock. 8 Then I annihilated the three shepherds in one month, for my soul was impatient with them, and their soul also was weary of me. 9 Then I said, "I will not pasture you. What is to die, let it die, and what is to be annihilated, let it be annihilated ; and let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

The Crucifixion of Yeshua

Zecariah 10 I took my staff Favor and cut it in pieces, to break my covenant which I had made with all the peoples. 11 So it was broken on that day, and thus the afflicted of the flock who were watching me realized that it was the word of the LORD. 12 I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages ; but if not, never mind !" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. 13 Then the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them." So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

The Diaspora ended in 1947 with God returning the Jews to the promised land, Israel. And God's favor toward His people, The Jews - Israel, has returned. Filling the prophecies of Zecariah Chapters 11-13., defeating the surround nations, repeatedly.



1 The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, 2 "Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around ; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah. 3 "It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples ; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it. 4 "In that day," declares the LORD, "I will strike every horse with bewilderment and his rider with madness. But I will watch over the house of Judah, while I strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 "Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, 'A strong support for us are the inhabitants of Jerusalem through the LORD of hosts, their God.' 6 "In that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot among pieces of wood and a flaming torch among sheaves, so they will consume on the right hand and on the left all the surrounding peoples, while the inhabitants of Jerusalem again dwell on their own sites in Jerusalem. 7 "The LORD also will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem will not be magnified above Judah. 8 "In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the LORD before them. 9 "And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced ; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

11 "In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 "The land will mourn, every family by itself ; the family of the house of David by itself and their wives by themselves ; the family of the house of Nathan by itself and their wives by themselves ; 13 the family of the house of Levi by itself and their wives by themselves ; the family of the Shimeites by itself and their wives by themselves ; 14 all the families that remain, every family by itself and their wives by themselves.

I am a gentile, and I longed that all Israel be saved by YHWH.

Romans Chapter 20 The Apostle Paul we are informs all true Israel will be saved near the end of the age, which is now has has been happening since 1947. For the times for gentiles to enter the Kingdom Is coming to an end, but all Israel, God's first love, will be saved. And I rejoice in this with an open heart.

Lion King said:

Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Acts 13:46-48

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Christ was always meant for the Gentiles. .....and this was further demonstrated even after his Resurrection/call for others to go to the Gentiles.....If recalling what seemed to have occurred in Acts 8:26-40 with the Ethopian Eunuch. For the sake of background, Ethopia was located in Africa south of Egypt. The Eunuch was obviously very dedicated to God because he had traveled such a long distance to worship in Jerusalem. The Jews had contact with Ethopia in ancient days (Psalm 68:31, Jeremiah 38:6-13, Jeremiahs 39:15-18, etc)---and thus, this man may have been a Gentile convert to Judaism. Because he was the treasurer of Ethopia, his conversion brought Christianity into the power structures of another government. This was the beginning of the witness "to the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:8, Isaiah 56:3-5). As seen in Acts 8:29-35, Philip found the Ethiopian man reading the scriptures and explained the Gospel by asking the man if he understood what he was reading.....following the Spirit's leading and beginning discussion from where the man was (immersed in the prophecies of Isaiah). In the process of coversation, the man was shown by Phillip how Christ fulfilled Isaiah's prophecies...with the conversation starting with the eunuch begging Phillip to explain a passage of Scripture which he did not understand. Once the task was over, Philip was suddenly transported o a different city.....but God sent his messengers to those who were after Him.

As a eunuch, the Ethopian would have been barred from the inner courts of the temple, which makes his reading "the prophet Isaiah" (v.28) especially significant ...for Isaiah held out the promise that God would grant eunuchs (alongside Gentiles wishing to do so) a heritage "better than sons and daughters" (Isaiah 56:3-5):
Others may say "But a Ethiopian Gentile seeing the Messiah doesn't mean the Messiah/Lord was for Gentiles" - but to do so would ignore precedence. For even with the earlier example of the Eunuch of Ethopia, there were many Gentiles of African descent within the scriptures who came to faith in the Lord. One example is EBED-MELECH, the Ethopian/black man who rescued Jeremiah from the dungeon/pit he was trapped in and was praised by the Lord for it(Jeremiah 38, Jeremiah 39 ). He was a a Gentile servant, politically disenfranchised, excluded by reason of his emasculation from "the congregation of the LORD" (Deuteronomy 23:1)...and yet when he lived in nation of Jews/Israelites that refused to obey the Lord, he did what was expected of the Lord for Jews to do. And although he did the true spirit of what the Torah commanded by saving life, he was still seen as a Gentile. Yet the Lord blessed him.
Paul also seemed to bring up the same point later in Romans 15, in continuation of his explaining the unique role that Gentiles had to play alongside the Jews, with neither becoming the other/replacing them - BOTH finding a common connection the Messiah being for BOTH groups:
Outside of this, there's still an abundance of evidence in the Gospel accounts indicates an understanding of a more positive participation of the Gentiles in God's Kingdom and the role of Jesus in this Gentile participation. This understanding is related to a host of references in the Old Testament regarding the future destiny of the Gentiles:
This outreach among the Gentiles is closely bound with the mission of the Servant of the Lord:
It is further said about this servant that
The Gospel accounts identify this servant as Jesus in unmistakable terms (Matthew 12:15-21). After Jesus has spoken to His disciples about His own suffering and the greatness of service, He concludes:
Later, He dies
And it is to these sheep that Jesus refers when He says:
Yeshua was not just King over Israel--but literally King of the ENTIRE WORLD and the Nations (long before anything of Israel even came up). He identified with the Samaritan people (i.e. woman at the well in John 4, Luke 9, etc), the demoniac who was healed in Gentile territory in Mark 5 and many other places. Apart from that, scripture was very explicit about the ways that the Lord chose to work in other nations outside of Israel just as He did with others within Israel.

But he always held Israel as being special and distinct from the Gentiles. Something that has always tripped me out is considering what the Lord did with Hagar the Egyptian ( Genesis 16:1-3, Genesis 21:8-10 , Genesis 25:11-13, etc )---and Egypt, by connection. For as the Lord proclaimed over Egypt by the prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 19:19-23
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Egypt was deemed to be amongst the people of the Lord alongside Israel--and Egypt called the Lord's people, a group that'd worship the Lord and be just as blessed as Israel was. With regards to "highway," compare the references to the highway to Jerusalem in Isaiah 11:16 and Isaiah 35:8-10. Isaiah 57:14 nd Isaiah 62:10 also describe the removal of obstacles and the construction of a highway to Jerusalem. The Egyptians and the Assyrians (often noted as enemies of Israel, even though Egypt was often used to save God's people) had been loggerheads for years (Isaiah 20:4), but in the future they would be linked in a bond of fellowship sealed by their common allegiance to Israel's Lord (Isaiah 25:3). And with the altar in Egupt, some scholars relate "altar" to the temple built in Egypt by the Jewish high priest Onias IV, who fled to Egpt during the second century B.C. But more appears to have been at stake in Isaiah 19:19. Indeed, the reference appears to be to a conversion to the Lord of a significant number of Egyptians.

The Lord made plain in His Word that the Egyptians would be a people whom He'd use mightly for His glory. With Egypt, the Lord expressed its entire admission to religious privileges (Ro 9:24-26; 1Pe 2:9-10, etc). When it came to His working with the Hebrews in the conquest of Cannan, it has always been interesting to consider how the intended recipients of salvation were not only Jews, but also Israel’s most hostile enemies! Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, and Philistia are included (Psalm 87:4-6; Isaiah 19:23-5). Even the Canaanites whom Israel fought against were incorporated into the new Israel, the true people of God (Zechariah 9:6 [the “Jebusite,” who has been assimilated into Israel]; cp. Matthew 15:22). ..


Even prior to all of that, the children of Israel were blessed through the land of Egypt when it came to what the Lord did through Joseph----who married an Egyptian woman, shaved his beard, had mixed children who were both Hebrew/Egyptian and adopted by Jacob, and had an Egyptian name (Genesis 41-42). As seen in Genesis 46–50, he brothers returned to Palestine and brought their father to Egypt In Israel's meeting meeting with the Pharaoh, Jacob pronounce a blessing on the Pharaoh (47:7–12)....and honored him. And in the death of Jacob (Genesis 49-50), all of Egypt (including Pharoah) came to mourn his loss and gave him the treatment of embalming (per the requests of Joseph) that was reserved for royalty. There were signs of relationship and interaction between Israel/other groups...


Moreover, the Lord noted to Israel how they were not to despise the Egyptians...and that they'd be welcome to come into the assembly of the Lord ( Deuteronomy 23:6-8 ). As the Messiah also recieved salvation in Egypt when Joseph and Mary fled there for protection in Matthew 2, it is highly interesting to consider the many ways the Lord has always used that group for his work...and if considering what it means to be apart of "Covenant", it is intriguing to consider how many may often say that only Israel had true covenant when the Lord already made promises of relationship with people groups OUTSIDE of Israel....and yet all would enjoy blessings within the land of Israel as well.

Lion King said:

Jesus was fulfilling what was written in the Scriptures; salvation was for the Jews first, the Gentiles coming in after.

he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth." Isaiah 49:6

___

“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.” - Isaiah 42:1-4
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Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20

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It is interesting to consider the concept of the Messiah as the Light to the Gentiles - seeing that he already noted He is the LIGHT of the world....
Of course, Yeshua also noted that His people are meant to be the Light of the World as well (Luke 16:7-9 and Matthew 5:13-15 ) who are meant to let our light shine before others - and one of my friends once noted that just as the moon doesn't show off its own light but instead reflects the light of the Sun which is always shining, so it is with believers who are the "Light of the World" because they are living reflections of the Light that Yeshua brings.....the Light found in the message of the Gospel and His work to deliver others from the power of the enemy.
And the Message of Light was NOT Torah - as in the Mosaic Law, since that could neither save fully as the Lord intended it nor was it the fulfillment of all the Lord desired (Acts 13:38-40 ). It was the revelation of the redeemption fulfilled in Christ.....and as Paul noted, a Righteousness that comes A PART from the Law in Romans 3. Brother Shimshon did an excellent thread on the issue entitled When your Torah observance falls short - as it concerns the salvation present in Yeshua. This was something echoed earlier before the Resurrection of Christ....for in John 12, we find Jesus and the Greeks.

John 12:20-22
20 Now some Greeks were among those who had gone up to worship at the feast. 21 So these approached Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, and requested, “Sir, we would like to see Jesus.” 22 Philip went and told Andrew, and they both went and told Jesus. 22 Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.

23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.
30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” .

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Along with many Jewish pilgrims, a number of “Greeks” came to Jerusalem to worship during Passover. There has been considerable discussion among the scholars as to just who these “Greeks” are. ....although many note how it refers to those Gentiles who have come to worship in Jerusalem.These Greeks do not merely wish to look at (i.e. “see&#8221 Jesus; they wish to speak with Him.

While there, they hear about all that Jesus had been doing in recent days. They probably heard about the healing of the man born blind (John 9) = and they most certainly heard that Jesus had raised Lazarus from the dead in John 11...some may even have seen Lazarus himself...and they must have wondered if Yeshua was the Messiah they had been seeking. Moreover, they would surely have wanted to hear from Him directly concerning what kind of relationship they might have with Him, since they were Greeks. Consequently, to obtain the answers to their questions, they would have to arrange to talk privately with Jesus - and they must have taken note of the fact that both Philip and Andrew had Greek names. The Apostle John makes a point of telling us (verse 21) that Philip was from Bethsaida in Galilee - for if any of the disciples might be inclined to lend a sympathetic ear to Greeks, Philip appeared to be the most likely one to do so.....so they approached him, requesting to meet with (i.e. to “see&#8221 Jesus.

And in response to their request, Christ noted the way they could come to find him by pointing out an important principle on how fruit bearing doesn't result from one’s efforts to save his life, but from one’s willing sacrifice of his life. ..with the Lord emlploying an agricultural image, which enables His audience to grasp the principle as illustrated in everyday terms. ...speaking primarily of Himself and of His imminent death, showing that He'd soon die, and that by means of His death, He'd produce much life since he cannot be the Savior of the world without first dying. It is interesting to consider this due to how at the “triumphal entry,” those who heralded the Messiah as the “King of Israel” in John 12:13 expected Him to “save now” (what “Hosanna” means) and yet the masses didn't understand that He could only save men by giving up His life, by experiencing the death penalty for sin in place of sinners/mankind - leading to the larger point that it wasn't His immediate coronation that would save many, but His death. ......not His acceptance by Israel, but His rejection, that would produce “much fruit.”...for He was "despised and REJECTED by men" (Isaiah 53:2-4/ Isaiah 53 ).

The reason this was important to the Greeks was due to the fact whether Jews or Greeks, the death of the Messiah in the sinner’s place was the only way of salvation. For the Greeks - if seeking Yesha as the Savior? - the Lord's answer was that to be their Savior, He'd have to die....and in addition to that, in order for the Greeks to be saved as Greeks, Israel would first of all reject Jesus as the Messiah, so that the gospel can be widely proclaimed to the Gentiles....keeping with the principle, “To the Jew first, and also to the Greeks” (see Matthew 10:5-6; Romans 1:16; Romans 2:9-10). Although the Lord had already reached out the Gentiles multiple times, it seems logical that the reason the Lord wouldnt't give the Greeks an audience at the time was because it is premature—it was not the time. ......for it was “His time” to die on the cross even though it was not the time to begin proclaiming the gospel worldwide as would happen later on in a more extensive level.

As said before, the Lord wanted to bring salvation to ALL of mankind - as they are all on HIS heart. Again, Christ once reminded His countrymen in His own town of Nazareth of two Old Testament incidents: During a famine in Israel the prophet Elijah aided not the widows of Israel but a widow at Zarephath (a Gentile..1 Kings 17:1); a little later the prophet Elisha helped not the lepers of Israel but the leper Naaman the Syrian (a Gentile)...seen in 2 Kings 5:1 . Hearing these incidents, Jesus' own countrymen became furious with Him when read the Scroll/noted that salvation came to the Gentiles (Luke 4:25-28)...as in the eyes of many Jews, Gentiles did not deserve salvation as they did (similar to how Jonah felt with Assyria when the Lord called Him to preach so that they'd repent). God directed both of these prophets, great prophets of God to the Children of Israel, to help individual Gentiles. These prophets supply an Old Testament precedent for Jesus' action among a few individual Samaritans and Gentiles...




One of these actions concerned the Canaanite woman, to whom, as already noted, Jesus had said: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." ( Matthew 15:21-28 ). In addition we see the passage regarding Jesus and the Roman centurion ( Matthew 8:5-10 ). It cannot be said enough that while reiterating that Jesus said that He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, we note also the following:

• 1. Jesus healed both Gentiles in need of healing
• 2. Both the centurion and the woman realized their unworthiness before Jesus. What is explicit in the account of the Canaanite woman is implicit in the account about the centurion: Jesus' ministry is to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Both were fully aware that they did not belong to the house of Israel and that Jesus had the right to reject their requests
• 3. Both demonstrate a faith which was unparalleled among the Children of Israel. It is this kind of faith that Jesus looked for and which He honored. Such a faith always receives what it wants, for it wants God's will (John 15:7, 1 John 5:19). Jesus told neither of them to follow Him.

The Lord followed the precedents of Elijah and Elisha in helping Gentiles, especially Gentiles of such faith...though these exceptions proved His rule of limiting His ministry to the house of Israel.

Lion King said:

You might wanna check out John 8:37-47.

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I have the majority of the NT memorized. What does that passage have to do with Samaritans falsely claiming to be Jews?

Lion King said:

How do they interpret the passage?

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Literally, without "spiritualizing" the text. It doesn't need interpretation. And, it is not a Messianic prophecy either. If it was, the ancient Jewish Torah commentators would have had plenty to say about it. Especially if it actually meant what Christianity claims it means. However, they were silent [virtually] concerning that verse. That is a huge indicator in and of itself.

Lion King said:

Jesus was fulfilling what was written in the Scriptures; salvation was for the Jews first, the Gentiles coming in after.

he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth." Isaiah 49:6

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“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.” - Isaiah 42:1-4
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Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20

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With the Gentiles, He was truly a light to them - and there needs to be understanding of how His heart was always for the Gentiles seeing Him in the Love He had for them since He did do some very RADICAL things.