Promise of a Gentile Messiah

[Lulav]

But that's exactly what He did say.....Even when He sent out the 70, He told them not to go into the gentile area, but to go to the lost sheep of Israel. Check it out for yourself. The call to the gentiles didn't come until after Israel rejected Him.

Yet although it is taught I think they didn't reject him so much as reject a certain apostle's message about him.

Israel as a whole certainly didn't reject him, those over Israel did, this would be the Sanhedrin because they made decisions for the people and those in charge during that time were corrupt and under the thumb of Rome. So in reality Rome, where Christianity became it's Empire's religion was the one who separated Israel from her Messiah.

Even in Acts we read of myriads of Jews who believed in Yeshua and were zealous for keeping the Torah. A 'Myriad' is

myr·i·ad
ˈmirēəd/
literary
noun
noun: myriad; plural noun: myriads

1. 1.
   a countless or extremely great number.
   "networks connecting a myriad of computers"
   synonyms:a multitude, a large/great number, a large/great quantity, scores, quantities, a mass, a host, droves, a horde; Moreinformallots, loads, masses, stacks, scads, tons, hundreds, thousands, millions, gazillions, bajillions
   "a myriad of insects"
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
2. 2.
   (chiefly in classical history) a unit of ten thousand.
   
   
   
   

adjective
adjective: myriad
1.
countless or extremely great in number.
"the myriad lights of the city"
synonyms:innumerable, countless, infinite, numberless, untold, unnumbered, immeasurable, multitudinous, numerous

The biblical definition of the Greek 'Murias' is

1. ten thousand
2. an innumerable multitude, an unlimited number
3. innumerable hosts

ten thousand times ten thousand or

two hundred thousand thousand



This is too many Jews who believed that existed.

 

[visionary]

Yet although it is taught I think they didn't reject him so much as reject a certain apostle's message about him.

Israel as a whole certainly didn't reject him, those over Israel did, this would be the Sanhedrin because they made decisions for the people and those in charge during that time were corrupt and under the thumb of Rome. So in reality Rome, where Christianity became it's Empire's religion was the one who separated Israel from her Messiah.

Even in Acts we read of myriads of Jews who believed in Yeshua and were zealous for keeping the Torah. A 'Myriad' is

myr·i·ad
ˈmirēəd/
literary
noun
noun: myriad; plural noun: myriads

1. 1.
   a countless or extremely great number.
   "networks connecting a myriad of computers"
   synonyms:a multitude, a large/great number, a large/great quantity, scores, quantities, a mass, a host, droves, a horde; Moreinformallots, loads, masses, stacks, scads, tons, hundreds, thousands, millions, gazillions, bajillions
   "a myriad of insects"
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
2. 2.
   (chiefly in classical history) a unit of ten thousand.
   
   
   
   

adjective
adjective: myriad
1.
countless or extremely great in number.
"the myriad lights of the city"
synonyms:innumerable, countless, infinite, numberless, untold, unnumbered, immeasurable, multitudinous, numerous

The biblical definition of the Greek 'Murias' is

1. ten thousand
2. an innumerable multitude, an unlimited number
3. innumerable hosts

ten thousand times ten thousand or

two hundred thousand thousand



This is too many Jews who believed that existed.

You would think with that many they would be the majority.

 

[Lulav]

Jesus was fulfilling what was written in the Scriptures; salvation was for the Jews first, the Gentiles coming in after.

he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth." Isaiah 49:6

A light is not a Messiah. The light is what shows the heathen nations who the true G-d is.

“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.” - Isaiah 42:1-4

'Justice' but not Messiah
_____

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20

Disciples in all nations was speaking of the Jews who were still living in the nations, among the Gentiles, because this was their duty from the beginning. I think these disciples he was speaking of them making were all Jews. They would be bringing the message of the light.

 

[visionary]

A light is not a Messiah. The light is what shows the heathen nations who the true G-d is.



'Justice' but not Messiah
_____



Disciples in all nations was speaking of the Jews who were still living in the nations, among the Gentiles, because this was their duty from the beginning. I think these disciples he was speaking of them making were all Jews. They would be bringing the message of the light.

and Torah is the light.

 

[David Ben Yosef]

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel. Genesis 3:15

The Jewish Sages did not see that verse as a Messianic prophecy.

 

[Lulav]

It is also written:

Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord." Luke 2:10-11

All the people of Israel, for they were the only one's expecting him which is what my OP is all about, thanks for pointing that out. If they had told anyone of the Gentile nations about this they would have looked at them as if they were crazy. This was a Jewish thing happening to Jews who were expecting this. The word translated people is laos, it is not goyim which means nations, nor does it say 'the world' meaning every human being.

Why stop at Luke 2:30?

And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, His name was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.

22 Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord 23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, “Every male who opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”), 24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, “A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.”

25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said:

29 “Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation
31 Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples,
32 A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles,
And the glory of Your people Israel.” - Luke 2:21-32

Jesus the Christ was the Savior prepared for both Israel and the Gentiles. He was never meant for Israel alone.

That is not what it says, nor do any of the prophecies.

A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. 33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled * at those things which were spoken of him. 34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold , this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against ; 35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed .

There is nothing about salvation here for the Gentiles. It was the Jews who were looking for this Salvation promised to them.

Hannah, living in the temple reiterates this fact.

38 And she * coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

John's father, Zacharias spoke to this as well

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied , saying , 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his p* , 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. 7

6 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, 78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, 79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

 

[Lulav]

You would think with that many they would be the majority.

By that time, yes. But when it was percieved that the 'whole world is going after him', he was cut down and not proclaimed Messiah, nor King.

Remember even Yeshua disappeared before the people could crown him King.

He was believed to be the Messiah, postmortem.

 

[Lulav]

and Torah is the light.

It is true it is a light unto thy path, but do you believe Yeshua came to give Torah to the Gentiles?

I believe it was to turn them from their false gods and towards the one True G-d and to join themselves to Israel as Ruth did.

I don't believe there is to be two different peoples, two different wives, two different husbands.....................etc

 

[visionary]

By that time, yes. But when it was percieved that the 'whole world is going after him', he was cut down and not proclaimed Messiah, nor King.

Remember even Yeshua disappeared before the people could crown him King.

He was believed to be the Messiah, postmortem.

There were still a lot of people standing around watching people like Steven getting stoned to death for believing.

 

[Lulav]

There were still a lot of people standing around watching people like Steven getting stoned to death for believing.

He was brought before the Sanhedrin, which was seventy two men. And I don't believe all were for the stoning, so it doesn't matter, these were the ruling body but far from a majority.

 

[Laureate]

Have you ever come across any material on Gentile Messiah's?

What I mean is that Jews have had a promised Messiah for 2+ millennium, Muslims only about 1400 years.

I think they call him the Mahati or something like that.

But were the Gentiles as a group (meaning all the other nations), distinct from Israel ever promised a Messiah to save them?

Take time to compare, and consider these verses in Isaiah 11

"AND there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and...

...he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Y'HuWDaH from the four corners of the earth."

Verse one does not indicate that the Rod, and the Branch are the Very same, but specifies that they are One In the Same, ["...In that day you will realize that I am In the Father...and that the Father is In me..."].

Look again, notice the intentional reverse order of things, first a Rod will come forth out of the Stem of Jesse, that is to say a 'descendant', Then Shall a Branch Grow From His Roots, which is to say from an 'ancestor', thus implying, an ancestor would have to ressurect from the dead (Lit. be Born again) in order to bring forth this branch from the Roots, (which are buried deep in the earth).

In Matthew (22:42-43), after being qustioned concerning the ressurection, Y'Shuwah asked in return '...What do you think of Meshiakh (the Branch)? Whose son is he? They said unto him, The Son of David (the Stem). Why then would David in spirit call him Lord...", here the passage "...for he was before me..." comes to mind.

Verse ten specifies that the Branch comes from the Root of Jesse, It does not say, that, the Branch will come forth of the Stem, nor does it say, that, it will come out of the Rod of Jesse, but from his Roots.

The Roots of Jesse? Jessies Mother (Ruth) was a Moabite not a Jew...

The Rod that the Stem brought forth? Solomon is a Rod which grew from (David who is a Stem of Jesse), yet his Mother was a Hittite not a Jew.

I believe a (bloodline) Jew is reckoned Maternally, is it not?

The firstborn of Y'HuWDaH was Er, then Onan, and thirdly Shelah, the Mother of all three is a Canaanite woman (Shuah); as with Naomi, two of her sons died, nevertheless Y'HuWDaH found a wife (Tamar) for his firstborn (Er), and when he died, he then gave her his second born (Onan) to raise up seed for his brother (Er), and when Onan died, Y'HuWDaH withheld his third born (Shelah) from Tamar, and now he had two dead sons that needed someone to provide seed for, yet while mourning the death of the Wife of his Youth, Y'HuWDaH (knowingly) sought Comfort in the Arms of whom he (unknowingly) mistook for a Harlot, and she (Tamar) bore him twins (Pharez, and Zarah), and thus restored the two fallen sons of Shuah the Canaanite woman, and that's how Pharez became the firstborn of Y'HuWDaH.

Technically, (in like manner), Solomon is not the Son of David, he is the seed raised for Uriah the Hittite, whom he had slain, thus according to the doctrine of reckoning a (bloodline) Jew by his Mother, and the custom of raising seed unto the dead, both suggests, that a Hittite ruled over Israel, not a Jew, and that the wisest king that ever lived (Solomon) was a Hittite, not a Jew.

If anyone who is not a Jew is a Gentile, then neither the Messianic Rod, Stem, or the Branch of Jesse is a Jew by bloodline, yet we know that Salvation is of the Jews, and that Y'shuah counted himself as such, everyone knows that Solomon was Jew-ish, technially, and literally, '-ish' means 'like or of a (Jew)', not 'is a (Jew)', thus definitively, "...of the Jews" is equal to Jew-ish, which includes but is not limited to those born of the blobloodline of Y'HuWDAH.

Yet, if you consider yourself a Gentile, which is not a name better than sons and daughters, then I would recommend, that you seek a name that Is greater than Sons or daughters, as YHWH promised to bestow (Isaiah 56).

If you do not Love Him with your whole heart, then your name might as well be Mud.

 

[visionary]

Yet although it is taught I think they didn't reject him so much as reject a certain apostle's message about him.

Israel as a whole certainly didn't reject him, those over Israel did, this would be the Sanhedrin because they made decisions for the people and those in charge during that time were corrupt and under the thumb of Rome. So in reality Rome, where Christianity became it's Empire's religion was the one who separated Israel from her Messiah. ...<snip>...

Not really...

John 4:9
Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans....39.And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did..40..So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.

Acts 8:25
And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

 

[Lulav]

Not really...

Not sure what you are saying here.

Samaritans were half Jews, like today where Jews of Judaism don't accept someone being Jewish if the Mother is a Gentile and the Father is a Jew. But regardless there is still Jewish blood running through the veins.

 

[Lion King]

A light is not a Messiah. The light is what shows the heathen nations who the true G-d is.

Old Testament

He says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth." Isaiah 49:6


New Testament

Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him. 26 It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord&#8217;s Messiah. 27 Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. When the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the Law required, 28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:

29 &#8220;Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you may now dismiss your servant in peace.
30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
31 which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and the glory of your people Israel.&#8221; Luke 2:25-32

_ _ _

Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: &#8220;We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

&#8220;&#8216;I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.&#8217;&#8221;

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Acts 13:46-48

'Justice' but not Messiah

Jesus Christ brought the commandments of God (justice) to the Gentiles.

It is the spirit that vivifies; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:17

Disciples in all nations was speaking of the Jews who were still living in the nations, among the Gentiles, because this was their duty from the beginning. I think these disciples he was speaking of them making were all Jews. They would be bringing the message of the light.

Incorrect. Peter declared that both the Jews and Gentiles are saved in the same manner; by believing in the LORD Jesus Christ.

Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: &#8220;Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.&#8221; Acts 15:6-11

 

[Lion King]

The Jewish Sages did not see that verse as a Messianic prophecy.

How do they interpret the passage?

 

[David Ben Yosef]

Not really...

John 4:9
Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans....39.And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did..40..So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.

Acts 8:25
And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

The Samaritans were not Jewish, Vizzy.

(Revelation 3:9 Complete Jewish Bible)
Here, I will give you some from the synagogue of the Adversary, those who call themselves Jews but aren't - on the contrary, they are lying - see, I will cause them to come and prostrate themselves at your feet, and they will know that I have loved you.

 

[Lion King]

All the people of Israel, for they were the only one's expecting him which is what my OP is all about, thanks for pointing that out. If they had told anyone of the Gentile nations about this they would have looked at them as if they were crazy. This was a Jewish thing happening to Jews who were expecting this. The word translated people is laos, it is not goyim which means nations, nor does it say 'the world' meaning every human being.

That's not entirely correct. The Samaritans also expected a Messiah who would save the world from their sins:

The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us." John 4:25

_ _ _

And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. And many more believed because of His own word.

Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.” John 4:39-42

That is not what it says, nor do any of the prophecies.



There is nothing about salvation here for the Gentiles. It was the Jews who were looking for this Salvation promised to them.

Hannah, living in the temple reiterates this fact.

38 And she * coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

John's father, Zacharias spoke to this as well

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied , saying , 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his p* , 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. 7

6 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, 78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, 79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Abraham, A 100% GENTILE btw, fully expected the LORD to provide a Messiah who would atone for the sins of all:

So Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife, and the two of them went together. But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!”

And he said, “Here I am, my son.”

Then he said, “Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?”

And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together. Genesis 22:6-8

_ _ _

Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.” Acts 3:24-26

 

[Lulav]

The Samaritans were not Jewish, Vizzy.

(Revelation 3:9 Complete Jewish Bible)
Here, I will give you some from the synagogue of the Adversary, those who call themselves Jews but aren't - on the contrary, they are lying - see, I will cause them to come and prostrate themselves at your feet, and they will know that I have loved you.

This is not speaking of the Samaritans.

 

[Lulav]

That's not entirely correct. The Samaritans also expected a Messiah who would save the world from their sins:

The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us." John 4:25

_ _ _

And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. And many more believed because of His own word.

Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.” John 4:39-42




Abraham, A 100% GENTILE btw, fully expected the LORD to provide a Messiah who would atone for the sins of all:

So Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife, and the two of them went together. But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!”

And he said, “Here I am, my son.”

Then he said, “Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?”

And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together. Genesis 22:6-8

_ _ _

Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.” Acts 3:24-26

Actually I already spoke of the Samaritans, they were not Gentiles they were of Jacob so of course they were awaiting a Messiah.

Secondly Abraham was not a 'Goy' as all were Goyim at that time. Abraham was of Shem however and of the Messianic line from Noah. Israel was not Jewish either, they were not declared a nation until after they left Egypt.

What that means is from Abrahams line, through Isaac only would the seed come that would bless the whole earth. This was from the redemption from the sin in the garden to which all creation was struggling under.

 

[visionary]

Not sure what you are saying here.

Samaritans were half Jews, like today where Jews of Judaism don't accept someone being Jewish if the Mother is a Gentile and the Father is a Jew. But regardless there is still Jewish blood running through the veins.

As Yeshua indicated when talking to the woman...

John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.