Profitable store closed due to crime

FireDragon76 · Jan 25, 2024

Ceallaigh said:
There are tons of shopping videos posted to Youtube and Tiktok.

Which is just a small sample and not representative of what is happening in the wider world.

Youtube algorithms tend to select for negative news and feed it to you. This stuff is basic media literacy in the 21st century. There's far more ordinary transactions happening in stores every day, uneventfully, than what Youtube or Tiktok shows. Which means a robbery in a single store in Oakland isn't really all that indicative of crime as a whole in a city like Oakland, or even in the United States as a whole.

ozso · Jan 25, 2024

wing2000 said:
All valid points. IMO, our perception of crime today is greatly influenced by social media. Where as before, a restaurant closing in Oakland would have been unknown to most of the country, today it only takes a single post to go viral and everyone knows.

What's going on is simple. In places where the legislature has gone soft on crime, crime has escalated.

Laodicean60 · Jan 25, 2024

wing2000 said:
All valid points. IMO, our perception of crime today is greatly influenced by social media. Where as before, a restaurant closing in Oakland would have been unknown to most of the country, today it only takes a single post to go viral and everyone knows.

That is true. My small town of Alamogordo is safe for me. I leave the house door unlocked most of the time. El Paso is a different story.

FireDragon76 · Jan 25, 2024

Hazelelponi said:
And that's it too... everything Conservatives say, even when we quote progressives themselves is "wrong" if it's not in line with the Democrats party line for said topic.

It's a religion now on that side of the aisle.

This isn't about a "party line", but media literacy. Tiktok videos aren't a good guide to understanding crime rates in the US.

wing2000 · Jan 25, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
That is true. My small town of Alamogordo is safe for me. I leave the house door unlocked most of the time. El Paso is a different story.

...and it would be easy for the Daily Mail or Tiktok to highlight a business in El Paso closing due to crime.

ozso · Jan 25, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
Do you understand that Youtube algorithms tend to select for negative news and feed it to you? This stuff is basic media literacy in the 21st century. There's far more ordinary transactions happening in stores every day, uneventfully, than what Youtube or Tiktok shows. Which means a robbery in a single store in Oakland isn't really all that indicative of crime as a whole in a city like Oakland, or even in the United States as a whole.

You said: There's even far more stores where clerks go to work and people shop... and that's all that happens. But you won't see people posting videos on Youtube or Tiktok.

And I said is there are tons of videos people post of themselves going shopping to youtube and tiktok.

Laodicean60 · Jan 25, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
But you won't see people posting videos on Youtube or Tiktok.

Were you underhanded? Since I'm the one who mentioned the videos?

FireDragon76 said:
Youtube algorithms tend to select for negative news and feed it to you

That is only if you look at that type of media. I was informed by my brother-in-law about the videos last year.

FireDragon76 · Jan 25, 2024

Ceallaigh said:
You said: There's even far more stores where clerks go to work and people shop... and that's all that happens. But you won't see people posting videos on Youtube or Tiktok.

And I said is there are tons of videos people post of themselves going shopping to youtube and tiktok.

I notice a trend of partisans posting of negative news stories about crime and the economy, when the national data doesn't back it up. That's not to say this country doesn't have real problems, but the right wing mediasphere isn't focusing on them. Perhaps because they would have to acknowledge how their wealthy donors are often part of the problem.

ozso · Jan 25, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
I notice a trend of partisans posting of negative news stories about crime and the economy, when the national data doesn't back it up. That's not to say this country doesn't have real problems, but the right wing mediasphere isn't focusing on them. Perhaps because they would have to acknowledge how their wealthy donors are often part of the problem.

What do you mean by national data? Aside from that, the right is focusing on problems with crime and the economy and the left is ignoring/denying it.

Hazelelponi · Jan 25, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
This isn't about a "party line", but media literacy. Tiktok videos aren't a good guide to understanding crime rates in the US.

I've never watched a ticktock video in my life.

For crime statistics I have always used the FBI website, at least until recently when partisan prosecutors stopped convicting crimes...

I mean, if you don't take down incident reports and don't charge anyone for crimes, then they never happened right? Lol.

So we can no longer trust FBI statistics, we are left talking to people who are in the area itself.

In this case, this company and their employees... Who have told us it's really bad there, and who's every action tells us what they are saying is likely true.

Larniavc · Jan 25, 2024

Gene2memE said:
about three quarters of Americans report they think

This seems to be a recurrent issue with some folks. What they think is at odds with reality.

ozso · Jan 25, 2024

Hazelelponi said:
I've never watched a ticktock video in my life.

For crime statistics I have always used the FBI website, at least until recently when partisan prosecutors stopped convicting crimes...

I mean, if you don't take down incident reports and don't charge anyone for crimes, then they never happened right? Lol.

So we can no longer trust FBI statistics, we are left talking to people who are in the area itself.

In this case, this company and their employees... Who have told us it's really bad there, and who's every action tells us what they are saying is likely true.

What a very good point. Less convictions and voilà the crime stats go down.

iluvatar5150 · Jan 25, 2024

Ceallaigh said:
What's going on is simple. In places where the legislature has gone soft on crime, crime has escalated.

If it's simple, you ought to be able to provide data to support that assertion. Can you?

Hazelelponi said:
I've never watched a ticktock video in my life.

For crime statistics I have always used the FBI website, at least until recently when partisan prosecutors stopped convicting crimes...

I mean, if you don't take down incident reports and don't charge anyone for crimes, then they never happened right? Lol.

So we can no longer trust FBI statistics, we are left talking to people who are in the area itself.

In this case, this company and their employees... Who have told us it's really bad there, and who's every action tells us what they are saying is likely true.

Ceallaigh said:
What a very good point. Less convictions and voilà the crime stats go down.

No, that isn't how those reports work. The crime rate is measured off of reported incidents. Arrests and convictions are separate stats.

NIBRS User Manual | Law Enforcement

This document addresses National Incident-Based Reporting System (NIBRS) policies, the types of offenses reported via NIBRS, and guidelines for an agency to become certified to submit NIBRS data to the FBI.

le.fbi.gov

Section 2.1 covers "Definition of an Incident"

But even if they were juking the stats on things like assaults and robbery, there's still murder. To quote Col Bunny Colvin from The Wire on this subject, "How do you make a body disappear?"

ozso · Jan 25, 2024

iluvatar5150 said:
If it's simple, you ought to be able to provide data to support that assertion. Can you?

What do you mean? Present pictures of bars and zigzagging lines?

iluvatar5150 said:
No, that isn't how those reports work. The crime rate is measured off of reported incidents. Arrests and convictions are separate stats.

NIBRS User Manual | Law Enforcement

This document addresses National Incident-Based Reporting System (NIBRS) policies, the types of offenses reported via NIBRS, and guidelines for an agency to become certified to submit NIBRS data to the FBI.

le.fbi.gov

Section 2.1 covers "Definition of an Incident"

But even if they were juking the stats on things like assaults and robbery, there's still murder. To quote Col Bunny Colvin from The Wire on this subject, "How do you make a body disappear?"

So it's based on how many reports are actually being recorded.

iluvatar5150 · Jan 25, 2024

Ceallaigh said:
What do you mean? Present pictures of bars and zigzagging lines?

That would be one way, yes.

seeking.IAM · Jan 25, 2024

I understand why a business would not want to be amidst violence and crime but to say it is to protect their customers and employees sounds rather lame to me. Odds are those employees and customers are largely from the neighborhood and Oakland. They still have to live amidst that violence, and now without a good burger joint close by or a handful of jobs. I don't see how that is very helpful to them.

keith99 · Jan 25, 2024

Learning that there is crime in Oakland is like finding out there is water in San Francisco Bay.

Ana the Ist · Jan 25, 2024

rjs330 said:
Nope it's cause you're racist.

Seriously though many of us pointed understood what was happening even before BLM raised its head. There were incidents of businesses closing in some of these places due to the crime even before 2020.

But I guess cause a white conservative says it it's only because we are racist.

Uh huh...I watched a news report the other day about a Walgreens closing in DC (I think) and the weird thing about it was the length everyone went to in avoiding the reason why it was closing in a predominantly black neighborhood.

Ana the Ist · Jan 25, 2024

seeking.IAM said:
I understand why a business would not want to be amidst violence and crime but to say it is to protect their customers and employees sounds rather lame to me. Odds are those employees and customers are largely from the neighborhood and Oakland. They still have to live amidst that violence, and now without a good burger joint close by or a handful of jobs. I don't see how that is very helpful to them.

It's a liability issue.

If a customer robs the store...and an employee pulls a gun a kills the armed robber....it may be self defense but that doesn't mean they won't be charged with murder. It doesn't mean that people won't protest and burn down the store. Remember that Wendy's that got protested when a drunken black man was shot and killed by police? It was burnt to the ground...and the arsonists got off with an extremely light sentence.

The left has gone a bit goofy in the way it excuses or even celebrates criminals.

seeking.IAM · Jan 25, 2024

Ana the Ist said:
It's a liability issue.

I agree! But it seems less than honest to say its done for customers and employees safety - the same customers and soon-to-be-unemployed persons who will continue to live among that violence, just without hamburgers.

Profitable store closed due to crime

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