Problems within the Methodist Church

[La Bonita Zorilla]

Got supporting data on this?

Martin E. Marty wrote about it in Christian Century last month.

I also believe Rev. John Killinger mentions it in Ten Wrong Things I Learned From A Conservative Church.

 

[kdet]

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That is certainly an unfortunate characterization. Again, who is to say the opposite is not true? By affirming the inclusion of Christ to Rev. Dammann the UMC has actually taken a step toward Christ's love rather than toward Satan's hate.

They don't appear to mention homosexualit,y they do mention it. Calling sinful behavior wrong is not stirring up hatred towards anyone.
IMO what steps that have been taken is toward Satan...and against the word of God...we see a great falling away of churches at the end times...IMO this is one of them.

 

[La Bonita Zorilla]

Thanks for all the comments. I think, having chosen Methodism as my way to celebrate Christianity, and having deliberately chosen a Methodist congregation, I must apply Wesley's maxim


however painful that may be. Though I fear for the UMC leaders, I think it best for me to continue to work from within the church, rather than to flee it. Our congretation is on the conservative-yet-progressive side (we have a divorced pastor and a few homosexual members) and we stick pretty much to the Book of Discipline, so this deviation is hard.

Maybe the Episcopals and Methodists will both split, and rejoin as two different denominations??? Naw...

Thanks for a thoughtful post. As a liberal UMCer I've often thought our more conservative UMs would probably feel better if they turned Baptist. I mention occasionally in my journal here on CF about problems we have with a couple who are fundamentalists in our church, cryptically, as I don't want this to attract the attention of anyone who would invade their privacy, but suffice it to say they are our bete noire (I'm not a cultured as I'd like to be but I believe that's French for a personal pain in the you-know-where.) Now our pastor is a peacemaker and he has shared with us some things maybe he shouldn't have about their personal lives (and probably ours as well, which bothers me less because we have nothing to hide) and I see his point. I actually pray prayers of thanks for them because of the challenging they offer. I believe having them around has made us better Christians. I wish they'd change, but, surely they wish the same about us. As always the challenge is to get along.

One wag said the nation needs both liberals and conservatives-using the metaphor of the "Ship of State" the liberals are the sails and the conservatives are the anchors. Can the church need both any less? I've seen churches that veer too far off course either way and wreck.

 

[La Bonita Zorilla]

I think if anything it is the world that is trying to demand that the church change to what is currently politically correct as opposed to what is biblically correct.

No offense but both political correctness and "Biblical" correctness (as if there were a way to measure such) are nothing but what Jefferson called "tyranny over the minds of men" toward which he swore "eternal hostility".

Times change, so do institutions. Or not. You can choose to change or not, but you cannot expect to do either without criticism.

 

[kdet]

No offense but both political correctness and "Biblical" correctness (as if there were a way to measure such) are nothing but what Jefferson called "tyranny over the minds of men" toward which he swore "eternal hostility".

Times change, so do institutions. Or not. You can choose to change or not, but you cannot expect to do either without criticism.

But God does not change!

 

[La Bonita Zorilla]

They don't appear to mention homosexualit,y they do mention it.

Cryptically and ambiguously.

Calling sinful behavior wrong is not stirring up hatred towards anyone.

 

[La Bonita Zorilla]

But God does not change!

No, but our understanding of him does; his true nature is constantly being revealed.

 

[Starcrystal]

I've attended a UMC before (Haven't been there in 4 years) and found the fellowship great, and a wonderful communion service that was more personal than the impersonal communion I've seen in some other churches. I also like that they made a formal appology to Native Americans for any wrongs they may have committed against them in the past.
However, when it comes to allowing homosexuality to flourish and be accepted as an alternative lifestyle, here's where we must draw the line. Its one thing to love the homosexuals and not shun them. (We need to share the gospel with them in its correct context regarding homosexuality) Its another thing altogether to allow homosexual ministers in the pulpit and treat it like that lifestyle is OK.
We need to pray that peoples eyes are openned to the truth about this. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. A little sin will spread. Now we have the Episcopalian church ordaining homosexuals. Homosexuals will demand the RIGHT to pastor churches, and if such a thing is ever passed into law it could affect the whole body of Christ.

 

[ufonium2]

No, but our understanding of him does; his true nature is constantly being revealed.

 

[P_G]

No offense but both political correctness and "Biblical" correctness (as if there were a way to measure such) are nothing but what Jefferson called "tyranny over the minds of men" toward which he swore "eternal hostility".

Times change, so do institutions. Or not. You can choose to change or not, but you cannot expect to do either without criticism.

Thats right I agree and it apears that this once very conservative institution that proclaimed the pure gospel of Christ Jesus and the eternal dangers of sin has changed. And I am criticizing them for it.

I as a pastor do not understand how one can stand on a pulpit of G-d and preach an effective sermon regarding the need for redemption and repentance of sin when you yourself are openly living in a sinful state.

It seems to be more than just a tad hypocritical to me.

Well I guess to each his own.

And if you want to sit under the teaching of a public sinner then more power to you.

If you want to sit the teaching of some one who lives to dwell in the righteousness that G-d has described in his word - drop me an e-mail I will send you my schedule.

blessings

Pastor George

 

[DaleC76]

The UMC and ECUSA should answer the question once and for all: Is homosexuality a sin?

As it stands now, they're still straddling the fence. They've made a de facto change of doctrine, now they should make it official. To give lip-service to orthodoxy, then blatantly disregard it is unfair to the members of the churches. They should make a stand, one way or another.

 

[countrymousenc]

No, but our understanding of him does; his true nature is constantly being revealed.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I feel for you all. You must feel betrayed by your own church and that has got to hurt.

 

[countrymousenc]

It does hurt, DOF, even though I've already left. My family is still UMC, and largely unaware of all this. (Pastors out here are not telling the people about it, and if people in the congregation know, they seem to be keeping it quiet.) A "Don't ask don't tell" policy will just allow this to spread all over.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

It does hurt, DOF, even though I've already left. My family is still UMC, and largely unaware of all this. (Pastors out here are not telling the people about it, and if people in the congregation know, they seem to be keeping it quiet.) A "Don't ask don't tell" policy will just allow this to spread all over.

My Dad was a UMC minister for 36 years, and my whole family is Methodist. I'm kind of hesitant to mention anything to them...

 

[countrymousenc]

I don't know how much I should tell my family either. Whether to disturb their consciences or not. These are difficult times.

We'll pray for each other.

 

[Knight]

It's sad to see a prominent church ignoring Biblical truth.

My parents currently attend a Methodist church. I'll have to make it a point to ask them about it.

 

[breezynosacek]

Well this thread redeems the entire board! Over in Current Events they are rejoicing that the lesbian wasn't kicked out of the ministry.

I thought the whole world had gone apostate over night!

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Well this thread redeems the entire board! Over in Current Events they are rejoicing that the lesbian wasn't kicked out of the ministry.

I thought the whole world had gone apostate over night!

It would certainly seem that way.

 

[Matrona]

My Dad was a UMC minister for 36 years, and my whole family is Methodist. I'm kind of hesitant to mention anything to them...

My friend's father is a Methodist minister. My friend said that when the whole thing went down in the Episcopal church, her dad had said that he thought the Episcopalians were making a big mistake. I wonder what he thinks of this, now. I feel so bad for both of these churches now.