I grew up in the Presbyterian church, and with the knowledge that the Trinity is pure, biblical fact, but I don't see that in the bible, and I feel it implies otherwise.
I want to be clear that I don't doubt the existence of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I am just unsure how they work together. The Presbyterians I know, would say that God exists in three parts, that are a sort of personality. The Three come together to form the Trinity, and each of Them are equally God. Now, I've found that most people think this, not just Presbyterians, so I won't go into detail. I know that the Three of Them exist, but I don't think that They are equally God. Most people I know would agree that it makes no sense, but they say that it makes sense for God, and we don't need to understand the specifics. But I don't even know where they're getting the idea from.
The way I see it is this:
God, the Father, is God. The one and only true God.
Isaiah 44:6 “This is what the LORD says—Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”
So, who is speaking, then? Are all three of them speaking at the same time? If it read, "apart from us there is no God." That would be a different story, but it doesn't.
Jesus is His Son, although they are not equals, nor do they share a common mind. Paul describes Jesus in the opening of his letter to the Romans. Why wouldn't he mention how Jesus and the Father are both God?
Romans 1:1-4 “Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.”
For us humans, a father and son share DNA, however, just because the son has the father's DNA in him, he is not the father. He could be considered halfway his father, but the DNA inside him is the son's, and not the father's anymore. Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and Mary, so He would have DNA from the both of them (I am speaking figuratively, I'm not sure Jesus actually received DNA from the Holy Spirit, although he might have). His father was the Holy Spirit of the LORD, Yahweh, and his mother was Mary. Jesus, is not God, but He is more than just a man. Some quote John 10:30, where Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." But Jesus had the Holy Spirit inside of Him. Something that did not come to the rest of the believers until Pentecost. I, someone who contains the Holy Spirit, am one with God. I am not God, though. He also was given power from the Father to do the works of Him. I can go further into this, but for the sake of this thread, I won't. If you disagree, I can elaborate.
1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus”
The Holy Spirit is God. There is no separation there. It is the Holy Spirit of God, or God's Holy Spirit. Just like you would say, that is Jimmy's hand, or the hand of Jimmy. The hand itself, is Jimmy. It is not a separate being, although, it is not entirely Jimmy, nor is the Holy Spirit the entirety of God. The Holy Spirit is similar to a body part, and is attached to God, not something that thinks for itself.
Am I crazy to think this? I feel like every Christian I know believes in this, so I might be bold for saying this. There very well might be something big and obvious that I'm missing. If so, please tell me, but please provide scriptural evidence. I don't want to just take your word for it. I'm not claiming to know everything, and I am very open to the idea of the Trinity, I just don't see where people find it in the bible.
In Christ, Matt
I want to be clear that I don't doubt the existence of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I am just unsure how they work together. The Presbyterians I know, would say that God exists in three parts, that are a sort of personality. The Three come together to form the Trinity, and each of Them are equally God. Now, I've found that most people think this, not just Presbyterians, so I won't go into detail. I know that the Three of Them exist, but I don't think that They are equally God. Most people I know would agree that it makes no sense, but they say that it makes sense for God, and we don't need to understand the specifics. But I don't even know where they're getting the idea from.
The way I see it is this:
God, the Father, is God. The one and only true God.
Isaiah 44:6 “This is what the LORD says—Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”
So, who is speaking, then? Are all three of them speaking at the same time? If it read, "apart from us there is no God." That would be a different story, but it doesn't.
Jesus is His Son, although they are not equals, nor do they share a common mind. Paul describes Jesus in the opening of his letter to the Romans. Why wouldn't he mention how Jesus and the Father are both God?
Romans 1:1-4 “Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.”
For us humans, a father and son share DNA, however, just because the son has the father's DNA in him, he is not the father. He could be considered halfway his father, but the DNA inside him is the son's, and not the father's anymore. Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and Mary, so He would have DNA from the both of them (I am speaking figuratively, I'm not sure Jesus actually received DNA from the Holy Spirit, although he might have). His father was the Holy Spirit of the LORD, Yahweh, and his mother was Mary. Jesus, is not God, but He is more than just a man. Some quote John 10:30, where Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." But Jesus had the Holy Spirit inside of Him. Something that did not come to the rest of the believers until Pentecost. I, someone who contains the Holy Spirit, am one with God. I am not God, though. He also was given power from the Father to do the works of Him. I can go further into this, but for the sake of this thread, I won't. If you disagree, I can elaborate.
1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus”
The Holy Spirit is God. There is no separation there. It is the Holy Spirit of God, or God's Holy Spirit. Just like you would say, that is Jimmy's hand, or the hand of Jimmy. The hand itself, is Jimmy. It is not a separate being, although, it is not entirely Jimmy, nor is the Holy Spirit the entirety of God. The Holy Spirit is similar to a body part, and is attached to God, not something that thinks for itself.
Am I crazy to think this? I feel like every Christian I know believes in this, so I might be bold for saying this. There very well might be something big and obvious that I'm missing. If so, please tell me, but please provide scriptural evidence. I don't want to just take your word for it. I'm not claiming to know everything, and I am very open to the idea of the Trinity, I just don't see where people find it in the bible.
In Christ, Matt
