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Problems with Faith Alone Theology and the Double Imputation Theory.

corinth77777

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Years ago...like 10 ...I read and called a man
Who said we were the lake of fire.....He had a very interesting take but dont know where...I saw his article but I called him...He ssid no one would believe him......I tried to share but...lol no on believed me..thats why I asked where u ou get those ideals...He make his ministers flames of fire...I dont know if I believed what he said but something to look into for sure
 
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Phil 1:21

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When discussing “faith alone, grace alone” versus “acts” people get cause and effect flipped around quite a bit. The beatitudes weren’t a road map to salvation; they were a reflection of the saved. We don’t do good works because we are trying to leverage salvation from God (unless you’re a follower of Joel Osteen and trying to guilt God into getting you a new bass boat). The good works we do are a result of our faith in the Lord and acceptance of His Grace. I don’t bring my wife flowers because I want something from her. I do it because we deeply love one another.


This whole concept of salvation through acts is a great theology if you’re selling something like indulgences (sorry, I meant “offering them in exchange for charitable donations”), but it’s not Biblical. To the people who believe we are saved through our own actions I ask this: What exactly do you think was the point of Jesus dying on the cross?
 
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corinth77777

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Ok..hi again... im going to take a stab at it

These are my thoughts....for today
We were made by him, through him, and for him
The faith of Jesus Justifies...his faith was belief on the father.
We must have the same faith...

Jesus believed on the father...and the father did the work

How do we get there....We first have to believe the gospel....

Jesus is the one sent to save the world from sins....He came in the Flesh
We accept the light....

Now whats next.....we walk in the light
When you walk in the light, you are walking in Love....we know we are cleansed when we walk in the light....so the cleansing done by
God which is the spirit of Christ

The cleansing is our Justification done by the spirit...and the work we do is the Fathers work....

I bet this has to do with the 3 that bear witness on earth and 3 in heaven
 
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ewq1938

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Soyeong

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A good observation. While it is true that the one and only way that there has ever been to become justified is by faith alone and nothing else, faith is never alone, but is always associated with action. Every example of saving faith in Hebrews 11 is an action taken in obedience to God's commands, but it has never been obedience itself to God's commands that justifies us, rather we are justified by the faith that leads us to obey them. We are justified by faith in God to lead us in how to rightly live, we are required by that same to faith to live in obedience to those commands, we show our love for God by our obedience to those commands, and we thereby grow in a relationship with God based on faith and love.
 
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sixpointer

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sixpointer

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One must have a standard from which to argue. Yours is Roman Catholicism (RC). Christ's authority that He used was the Scriptures as you will find as you read the Gospel accounts and of course at that that time it was the OT. It is written. As much as logic is very important, it does not supersede the Scriptures as the final authority as in the case for example with the doctrine of the Trinity. Now, you find fault with the teaching of Justification by Faith Alone (JBFA) and it is the alone part that you are against. You say that 'alone' is not Biblical however it is. You see, there is no conflict between Paul and James. Paul says that no one can be justified by keeping the law. James speaks of justification in another sense when he speaks of works to say that works in the life of a Christian provide proof (justification) that their JBFA is authentic. It is the work ALONE of Christ that justifies a person and this is accessed by faith alone. Nor does this faith originate with man. It is a gift from God (Ephesians 2) as is godly repentance! Salvation is of God! This is why it is important to see that regeneration (John 3, Eph. 1,2) procede faith and repentance. Regeneration does not come about through the immediate work of the Holy Spirit in the soul of man. You are against JBFA yet this is the very way that Abraham was brought into a right relationship with God: Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Not infused or imparted but imputed or accounted. So, yes, a positional sanctification is true of all who are born of the Spirit of God and the same ones will give evidence that their JBFA is true by their fruit or progressive sanctification.
 
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corinth77777

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Wow! Would like someone to disprove this thought...

If they can with scripture.

It is the faith of Christ that saves
But why alone?
Do we read into, or replace word meaning, because we misunderstand "not by any works of righteousness we have done"
Is that it or is there some other scripture I am missing why people say faith alone?

The way I see is, and correct me if I'm wong,
"Not by works of righteousness we have done", would have been a direct relationship of ourselves to the law....Another words there is no way man can be justified by his flesh, or through his flesh.

Which then would make it the faith of Christ or faithfulness of Christ....which was his obedience unto the father unto death that we enter into or unto Justification.

Which could mean we enter through his body
In order to be justified by his faith[which is the same type of faith we have] obedience unto death[dying daily even]

For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Verse 10
We are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works

Verse 10 there is where we are Justified
When it says "unto good works"

Verse 18 For through him we both have access by one spirit unto the Father.

what happens when one has access to the father after going through the son...
We ACT IN OBEDIENCE?.....we act in Faith, love and follow the Spirit? And then cleansing takes effect by the Father? And the out come is Good works?

So, back to main point: we are not saved through our own works unto Justification.
We are saved through Christ's works unto justification.

Christ's work was his Faith...He obeyed his father unto death....He obeyed and his father did the work.
And we believe in the resurrection unto salvation through Love.....Faith working through love
Therefore Christ's Faith is at work when we Love....[same faith he had then we must have]

For by grace are ye saved through faith
And being "saved through faith of Christ"
Is not of yourself...you are not saved through yourself....to be saved through the faith of Christ or faithfulness of Christ is "the gift of God"

My thoughts only study for yourself...
 
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corinth77777

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How about its through Christ alone unto justification....for his faith was a credit to
Or something to go towards Justification...
And how many times was Abraham said to be justified?

Abraham Believed God. But how?
I believe just like Jesus He obeyed God...
Walked by faith ...as Christ did, being obedient to the father unto death.
 
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sixpointer

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Ok so it is the Father who has planned, the Son accomplished redemption and the Holy Spirit applies the very same redemption. One the cross, Christ suffered to make a full and final payment for all of God's elect. It was penal, vicarious, propitiatory and substitutionary. Need to get to grips with each of those facets which constitute the whole 'diamond' of the atonement. Now, when the Holy Spirit regenerates the individual this person (at some point) is godly repentance and faith to exercise toward Christ. Now in the exercise of this said faith, it (faith) IS the instrument by which Christ's righteousness is imputed or accounted, and this only occurs because of acquittal: no longer guilty due to The benefits of Christ's substitutionary work have been transferred to the persons account so to speak. So the person is JBFA by Christ alone ie NOT Christ plus my work. In fact there are 5 alones. Scripture, Christ, grace, faith, God's glory. Each stands alone. Nothing can and must be added. Now, whilst a person is JBFA APART from the works of that person, justification NEVER remains alone ie following on from justification is progressive sanctification. This is life long. Now whereas the person is passive in regeneration not so sanctification in which the Christian works out their salvation... for it is God who is WORKING in... There are lots of different deviant paths from this teaching sadly.
 
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corinth77777

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I personally believe from the context of scriptures I read in Ephesians 2 that the word, "through" is the better preposition to use.

We are saved through

We are not saved through our nature
We are saved through the "faith of Christ"

So what is the washing of regeneration and renewal of the holy spirit.

Because:
We are saved through, by or because of.
I think one must go back to the Law and pharasees to find out.

*Before what was their covering? Pure animal sacrifice in order to stay in right standing to continue in the law.?

Yet what did the pharasee see as their right standing? Question

*so the washing is through the gospel
because of his faith/or faithfulness to God. His body and pure blood. And we are renewed by the spirit because of this cleanse that frees our hearts and mind to serve a true and living God in works he has already prepared for us to do. [through the resurrection]
And in doing these we stay under the umbrella of his Love....

So that is how I see the washing of regeneration

Believing or continual belief in Jesus Christ
[which emphasized resurrected Christ of one whose body took on our payment of our sins]

Which would be the washing of regeneration
to be born from above one must go through
The one that comes from above.

And hold up to the standards of the law through love. (Renwal of the spirit)
Renwal of the spirit of the one you came through. Jesus had an obedient spirit, spirit of love.
The spirit is renewed as we walk in his love.
Walk=setting your mind to things of the Holy Spirit-to that which is unseen therefore eternal.
We only set our minds to this, because he has set our minds free from sin and guilt before God.....the outcome is Justification through sanctification by His Justification.
 
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corinth77777

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Read Romans 8


Sounds good to me......
 
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sixpointer

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Cori, regeneration is another word for born again and means new life. John tells us that such ones are born of the Holy Spirit of God. It is God who give life. He is the Creator and (spiritual) recreator. So, for me, it was me who cried out to the Lord. He heard my prayer and I knew He had saved me and I started attending a church where the Bible was faithfully taught. Wow. It was like going to Heaven (so to speak), I mean this was the first time I had opened the Bible and heard a sermon... anyway my point really is that it was approx. 6 months later that I was surveying things leading up to my conversion to Christ and from the Scriptures began to understand that regeneration precedes conversion. The effect that this had was very humbling and my thiought was and is well, why me? Why would God shower His regenerating love on me? Romans 3 tells us that there are none righteous so I knew it was not because I some how deserved it. Eph. 1 tells us that it is according to His good pleasure to save whomsoever He will. To God be the glory!
 
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JohnMartin

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Faith alone theology is an invention of the Reformation. Faith is a virtue to believe all that God has told man. Hope is a virtue to desire what God has promised. And love is a virtue to desire God above all things. Hope and love immediately follow faith. Hence faith is never alone. Therefore the Reformation teaching of faith alone is false, and the Reformation is a human invention which is also false.

JM
 
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corinth77777

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Its all in the interpretation behind the meaning....and how the telephone[how people retell a truth..or non truth

I myself havent study the reformed Ideal...
But I have a feeling they were not too far off
But that people interpreted their thoughts wrong.
I can see how the meaning of "alone" applied
By, that we go through Jesus's faith alone.[his body he presented as a sacrifice by obeying the father] in order to be Justified by his Spirit.........Its his death alone...and resurrection that is the "only" doorway
 
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sixpointer

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Your argument there is based on RC teaching.

The standard which Jesus used in confronting the devil was the OT Scriptures: it is written! The standard He used to prove who He was (Luke 24) was the very same standard! The O and N testaments are the full and final standard.

You say faith alone is false. Consider: 1) I have NOT said that faith alone is the sum of all Christian teaching. It is not. However it is faith as the instrument (supplied by God) see Eph. 2 which the regenerated person exercises toward Christ which brings acquittal before God. Hence, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness! This is the only was that any soul has ever come into a right relationship with God. Now true saving faith is NEVER alone and what follows is works. Works (Eph. 2) are prepared beforehand by God but works do not add to my justification before God rather they prove that my justification is authentic since faith without works is dead!

You must step back from RC and see that it is a system built on a faulty and dangerously poor foundation. My hope is in Christ alone. The RC person has to hope that each and every administering of the RC rites is authentic otherwise they were not valid and that according to RC admissions eg refer to Trent in its many pronouncements.
 
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JohnMartin

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There is nothing in the scriptures that says the O and N testaments are the full and final standard.


There is no evidence in the NT that faith is an instrument. The notion of faith as an instrument is a Reformation invention linked into the false theory of penal substitution.

You do not have hope in Christ alone, for the work of God is always Trinitarian and not unitarian as the word "alone" infers. Every time a man speaks of faith alone theology, he opens himself to simple refutations such as those given above.

JM
 
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sixpointer

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Again it is you RC teaching coming through, a teaching that says one can be regenerated and this through the RC rite of baptism) but commit mortal sin and when not absolved upon deeath go to Hell! Add to that that if the priest does not have the required intent then the rite was invalid anyway and so you've lost what you thought you have even though you thought it was restord through the official grace conduit of RC.

Re the Old and New Testament, note Christ used the standard: the OT which was the complete canon for the time. Never once did Christ or anyone ever quote from any prophet during the inter testamental period. There is an anathema to anyone who adds or takes away from God's word. God's word is sufficient. You obviously do not believe that Abraham BELIEVED God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Christ invited people to come DIRECTLY to Him. I did and afterward I understood that it was His regenerating love that was the reason why I did. God is good!
 
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JohnMartin

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Faith alone theology is only found in James 2:24 where it explicitly denied. Faith alone theology is an invention of men.

The word of God is reduced to scripture by the reformers even though the phrase does not ever only refer to the scriptures.

Moses seat is an authority from God in the OT that was binding and found in the intertestamental period. See Matt 23:1-3 for details.

JM
 
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sixpointer

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You are mistaken re faith alone and the first it is seen is with Abraham whose right standing before was brought about by believing God with accounted (imputation of righteousness). James shows that true faith is PROVEN by works but he is not denying the teaching of JBFA. You misunderstand this. RC say that the NT and OT are the word of God, they say that this does NOT constitute the full revelation of God. Now logic will tell you that there is no inaccuracy with God so I invite you to use the 66 books as the standard from which to test the authenticity of the RC additions and said infallible statements from RC including Trent. You will find that Trent is in severe opposition to the 66 books if you are willing to use the Scriptures as the standard even as Jesus did. The word of God: yes, Jesus appealed to the WRITTEN Scriptures! The Bereans were COMMENDED. Why? Check out the Bereans use of the standard. Isaiah appealed to the standard. RC has usurped the place of God and the Scriptures. Yours is a fight against God. You have to trust that the RC have got it all right for you personally, the three requirements for baptism all absolutely essential: Trent says they are! My hope is directly in Christ. I love Him because He first loved me. It was not through the RC I came to faith in Christ. It is Scripture alone, Christ alone, grace alone, faith alone and for the glory of God alone. May God have mercy on your soul by His sovereign power for His honour and your good.
 
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