Problems with a 6000 year old earth.

[Arikay]

"The point is, whatever changes took place the Bible clearly says the changes took place in the firmament or the atmosphere."

Good for it. "the bible clearly says" is not evidence, but its a nice place to hide behind.

"there are plenty of geological records of when the atmosphere was filled with some sort of dust."

Yep, but this has nothing to do with the begining of the earth.

The point is, whatever changes took place the Bible clearly says the changes took place in the firmament or the atmosphere. Also, there are plenty of geological records of when the atmosphere was filled with some sort of dust. It could be from a volcano, or a comet hitting the earth that stired up a lot of dust.

 

[JohnR7]

"The point is, whatever changes took place the Bible clearly says the changes took place in the firmament or the atmosphere."

Good for it. "the bible clearly says" is not evidence, but its a nice place to hide behind.

Genesis 1:14
Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

The Bible is clearly talking about the firmament. It maybe hidden to you, but it is plain and clear and out in the open to me.

 

[Jet Black]

evidence for this firmament please?

 

[JohnR7]

evidence for this firmament please?

What evidence? I just gave you the passage from the Bible, what more do you need other than that?

 

[Jet Black]

there appears to be no evidence for the firmament, so I see no reason to believe in it. this effectively falsifies that part of the bible.

 

[Arikay]

Again, like I said John, a bible verse in not evidence. If that is all the evidence you have then I will assume that you have none.

 

[JohnR7]

Again, like I said John, a bible verse in not evidence. If that is all the evidence you have then I will assume that you have none.

Yeah, that is fair, because if you do not accept the Bible as evidence then we assume that your dead in trespasses and in sin.

 

[JohnR7]

there appears to be no evidence for the firmament, so I see no reason to believe in it. this effectively falsifies that part of the bible.

You can not falsify the Bible. The Bible is truth.

 

[Arikay]

Good for me. But that still doesnt help any of your empty claims.

Yeah, that is fair, because if you do not accept the Bible as evidence then we assume that your dead in trespasses and in sin.

 

[JohnR7]

Good for me. But that still doesnt help any of your empty claims.

This whole thing is going no where. Do you want to get back on topic, or should we just consider this thread a lost cause?

 

[Arikay]

Back on topic sounds good John.

This whole thing is going no where. Do you want to get back on topic, or should we just consider this thread a lost cause?

 

[rollingstone]

This whole thing is going no where. Do you want to get back on topic, or should we just consider this thread a lost cause?

This is my first post. I've been a searcher - have read books from a few major religions - and have recently became a christian. The topic of creation therefore has interested me. I have listened to a lot of Christian leaders/speakers defend the Christian view but my feeling after listening to them is that instead of convincing people they only managed to produce the opposite effect. Zeal is good, but it should be accompanied by critical thinking and logic, and of course, gentleness. Fallacies should be avoided like using personal attacks if you do not have a better argument, abandoning evidence, making non sequitur conclusions, etc.

 

[Arikay]

Welcome.

I agree.

There are many christians that believe in Evolution and science and are still christians.

Some groups like to link creationism with christianity, this, IMHO, is a dangerous thing, as it suggests that if I can disprove creationism (rather easy to do) then I can disprove Christianity. Not the best place to put your religion in.

Not too mention many of these groups seem to "lie for christ." They tell lies or half truths to support their possition, and christianity. Lying is probably not the best way to wittness to other people.

This is my first post. I've been a searcher - have read books from a few major religions - and have recently became a christian. The topic of creation therefore has interested me. I have listened to a lot of Christian leaders/speakers defend the Christian view but my feeling after listening to them is that instead of convincing people they only managed to produce the opposite effect. Zeal is good, but it should be accompanied by critical thinking and logic, and of course, gentleness. Fallacies should be avoided like using personal attacks if you do not have a better argument, abandoning evidence, making non sequitur conclusions, etc.

 

[Valen]

Back on topic sounds good John.

I once believe in a geologic time scale but I am on creationism now...
I theorize that the man and the life of the world existed around 10,000 - 30,000 years ago. I believe in a being that created it because if we use "out of chance" tactic to figure it out, there should be existence of life in other planets in this solar system even in minute evidences... Like a contagion factor. As you can see I fully believe that there is no life among the other planets in the system except Earth.

 

[Jet Black]

where do you get the 10-30k number from?

why should there be life on other planets in the solar system? are you telling me that mercury or Jupiter are places where you can expect life to be formed? Do you have enough knowledge of the various processes and requirements for life to back up your deduction?

and what about the rest of the universe. there is an awful lot of it that hasn't been looked at yet.

 

[Valen]

where do you get the 10-30k number from?

why should there be life on other planets in the solar system? are you telling me that mercury or Jupiter are places where you can expect life to be formed? Do you have enough knowledge of the various processes and requirements for life to back up your deduction?

and what about the rest of the universe. there is an awful lot of it that hasn't been looked at yet.

Yes I knew them...
First show me yours to refute it

 

[Jet Black]

no, I asked first, tell me where you pulled the 10-30k number from.

 

[Valen]

no, I asked first, tell me where you pulled the 10-30k number from.

I'll tell you later soon so that you'll be surprised. You're the refuter tell me yours first. Provide all evidences and I'm gonna hit them one at a time

 

[Jet Black]

I really can't see what on earth you are asking me to say.

 

[Valen]

I really can't see what on earth you are asking me to say.

so am I