Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
You can have opportunities without tragedy, though.Tragedies are opportunities and we have lots of opportunities. It is not our job to make more opportunities but to secure the good that can come from these opportunities.
That’s the same as saying God does not like drug addiction but allows people to get addicted in order for people to owe him for saving them from drug addiction.God does not like sin, but will allow humans to sin in order to form this huge debt.
You keep claiming that but have yet to demonstrate it.God is the very best parent and discipline done with Love and the best interest of the child is extremely beneficial (loving).
Yes, I am sure his discipline can be hard for a child to take, especially when it involves having them slaughtered which doesn't give them a chance to put their "offence" behind them, and as some children were too young to walk, let alone talk, no time to get to commit an "offence" in the first place unless just being an infant is considered to be an offence.God is the very best parent and discipline done with Love and the best interest of the child is extremely beneficial (loving). The discipline can be hard to take at the time but accepted correctly results in a stronger relationship between parent and child.
Discipline:
1. is a deterrent to both the child being disciplined and others around the child.
2. shows the child how great the offence is.
3. Lets the child know his parent really Love him/her since negligent parents do not discipline their children properly when they have the chance.
4. It is a wonderful teaching moment especially of the parent goes through the disciplining with the child (like Christ being crucified with us).
5. It allows the child to put the offence behind him (he did the crime and did the time).
I just cannot imagine a person going through undeserved torture given by a group of truly wicked people, when they could in an instant stop it and punish those administering the torture. He is not being held against His will, but is allowing it and it is all happening because of me.I know the theology. It is just not a big sacrifice if it is true in my opinion.
Admittedly, The value of the “debt”/offence is up to God.Disagree. The debt is fabricated by God as a motivation for humans to accept his forgiveness. If God had not fabricated the debt in the first place there would be no debt.
Wow, I thought that was understood without even saying it.You keep claiming that but have yet to demonstrate it.
God can’t ever have that kind of relationship with a human. Any given human was created by God. And God knows every thought and deed that person will ever have and commit at every point in time.Admittedly, The value of the “debt”/offence is up to God.
Suppose you are looking for a combination of a: really close friend, spouse, partner, someone you can trust, someone who really wants to be around you 24/7 and really someone who will be codependent. This relationship will last forever. Would you choose the person who boldly intentionally, rebelliously offended you, left you, took what you gave them just to watch them trample it underfoot and then approve of the murder of your first son?
Would you choose a programmed robot to live with for eternity?
God is wanting people with the unconditional, unselfish Love like He has, that want to be with Him, be like Him, and be Loved by Him. Thus the first objective is to obtain this Love and God is doing all He can to help us obtain this Love.
If there is no unbelievable huge debt there is no way to obtain an unbelievable huge Love.
I think that is where we keep missing each other: you have yet to demonstrate that which you assert.Wow, I thought that was understood without even saying it.
God disciplines those that are accepting God’s help/charity.Yes, I am sure his discipline can be hard for a child to take, especially when it involves having them slaughtered which doesn't give them a chance to put their "offence" behind them, and as some children were too young to walk, let alone talk, no time to get to commit an "offence" in the first place unless just being an infant is considered to be an offence.
People are tortured for years without the ability to stop it for themselves. Most parents would choose to be tortured even if they could stop it themselves if it would save their child. Jesus was God before and after he was tortured for a couple days. There have been nonbelievers who willingly gave their lives for others believing they would perish forever. Jesus never did that for you. Jesus could stop it at anytime and many of the torturer's probably were tortured by Jesus in hell. There have been humans that have sacrificed much more than Jesus did.I just cannot imagine a person going through undeserved torture given by a group of truly wicked people, when they could in an instant stop it and punish those administering the torture. He is not being held against His will, but is allowing it and it is all happening because of me.
This is the reason God created humans with a very limited amount of autonomous free will.God can’t ever have that kind of relationship with a human. Any given human was created by God. And God knows every thought and deed that person will ever have and commit at every point in time.
Accordingly, from the perspective of someone who knows what we will think and do before we are aware of it our selves we ARE indistinguishable from preprogrammed robots.
I went on to say look at Jesus:I think that is where we keep missing each other: you have yet to demonstrate that which you assert.
I thought that we already knew what your god would be like if he came down to earth.Wow, I thought that was understood without even saying it.
One of the big reasons Jesus came to earth was to show us how God the Father would act if He came to earth, so is Jesus an excellent example of what the best Loving Father would be like. See how Jesus treated the 12 with him, how he taught be example, His patience, his being a servant, his sacrifice for them, and His care for them.
Can you give us good evidence there is an outside of time?19. Once you agree to the concept of God being outside of time (existing throughout human time) and the definition of autonomous free will, all my ideas logically follow
Do they allow themselves to remain being tortured for unworthy people?People are tortured for years without the ability to stop it for themselves. Most parents would choose to be tortured even if they could stop it themselves if it would save their child. Jesus was God before and after he was tortured for a couple days. There have been nonbelievers who willingly gave their lives for others believing they would perish forever. Jesus never did that for you. Jesus could stop it at anytime and many of the torturer's probably were tortured by Jesus in hell. There have been humans that have sacrificed much more than Jesus did.
How does this make the torture worse?Do they allow themselves to remain being tortured for unworthy people?
That is the same God just working from heaven instead of on earth with us. We need Him really close.I thought that we already knew what your god would be like if he came down to earth.
You can read all about it in the old testament, and Loving Father is not the first description that springs to mind.
Good question because our universe only appears to have time.Can you give us good evidence there is an outside of time?
It tkes an extremely strong commitment every second for as long as the torture is endured.H
How does this make the torture worse?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?