Problem of Evil

[Jamza]

I was just wondering what Christians here thought about it. How can evil/suffering exist when God is both all powerful-and all-loving?

 

[tel0004]

Because God does not force us to love him. We have free will. Through free will people can choose to be evil, and to do harm to other people. If God forced us to love him, then it wouldnt be love.

 

[Jamza]

What I mean is; if the disorder of evil spread humans through Satan; why God, being all knowing, create a creature that would turn against him? And, why does suffering continue to undeserving people when God is powerful enough to stop it; and is truly just?

 

[b4uris]

We have free will. Through free will people can choose to be evil, and to do harm to other people. If God forced us to love him, then it wouldnt be love.

Yes, but what about "natural evil", like earthquakes, hurricanes, and viral epidemics?

 

[Species8472]

a good god does not bind souls but frees their will; hence God is Good, he is just missing an O.
evil lives only under the skin, according to free will.

 

[Jamza]

Yes, but what about "natural evil", like earthquakes, hurricanes, and viral epidemics?

This is a good point. Humans rarely create these things out of free will; earthquakes in particular are out of human control.

 

[Species8472]

Remember we live in a physical realm; where chaos theory reigns. Actions have consequences. The body perishes but the spirit lives on.
Natural disasters are violent when suffered, however, there is an awe-shocking beauty to their violence. Natural events that convey powers beyond our control.
We are all pre-destined to die and we cannot choose how e die(unless it is suicide).
Does the occurance of natural events mean God is evil? No. It just means God gives the natural world a will of its own; without the free will of mother nature there is no progression. Planet is very much alive and maintains a will of its own.
Just as we are given free will. The planets free will has to do with geo-physics--if you want to give a name to it.
physics make all things possible.
The universe is a maginificent place--with galaxies, star systems, planets, life, atoms, quarks, what have you. Put it all together and you have chaos theory.

 

[EverlastingMan]

Evil is the most common objection to christianity and the easiest resolved as well. I'll post some thoughts later.

 

[xAtheistx]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-Epicurus[/font]

 

[b4uris]

That whole dilemma presupposes God is required to intervene directly in people's lives in order to be a caring God, which is in itself highly questionable.

 

[TeddyKGB]

That whole dilemma presupposes God is required to intervene directly in people's lives in order to be a caring God, which is in itself highly questionable.

I don't think it presupposes anything. Any means of dealing with evil is necessarily available to an omnipotent being. Creating a less evil world in the first place, for example.

 

[bob135]

Well, to even answer that question, we have to assume that God conforms to human ideas about evil, love, and goodness and that we can understand how God works.

I think the free will solution to the problem of evil is flawed for a couple of reasons:
1) "Free will" (the ability to willingly do otherwise?) isn't going to separate us from cause and effect, so whatever universe God created, plus whatever truly random elements there are, if any, are going to determine every single decision we make.
2) God's omniscience conflicts with free will. How would God know what was going to happen if events weren't predetermined?
3) Lets say free will somehow did work, or ignored cause and effect, or whatever. God is still omniscient and omnipotent, so he has the knowledge and power to create a world where everyone is happy and still has free will. To say otherwise would be to contradict God's power/knowledge.

 

[Species8472]

I think the free will solution to the problem of evil is flawed for a couple of reasons:
1) "Free will" (the ability to willingly do otherwise?) isn't going to separate us from cause and effect, so whatever universe God created, plus whatever truly random elements there are, if any, are going to determine every single decision we make.
2) God's omniscience conflicts with free will. How would God know what was going to happen if events weren't predetermined?
3) Lets say free will somehow did work, or ignored cause and effect, or whatever. God is still omniscient and omnipotent, so he has the knowledge and power to create a world where everyone is happy and still has free will. To say otherwise would be to contradict God's power/knowledge.

There is a saying, by william blake, Eternity is in love with the productions of time."
Like a dark tragedy that turns into something beautiful. smallest of all seeds.

Jesus says, God is a spirit; and a spirit has to be worshipped in spirit and in truth. He also says God is love. He says the Father, but also mentions that none have seen his form or shape at anytime; therefore God is the All.
God is Light. God is Truth. God is Virtue.
We can't explain evil if God is corporeal. God is a force.

 

[jinkazama]

I have dicuss this on the General Theology forum,

1. Free-will- account for moral evils
2. Greater good-what seems to be evil or suffering, maybe good in future, for some kind of purpose
3. Soul-making- create enduring traits, character
4. Price of freewill
5. Natural evils?- you have explain this to me?
Any one care to answer number 5

 

[Species8472]

I know I'm grasping at straws.

Jesus says, if you have seen me then you have seen the Father. The Father is the image of perfection and Jesus states God is Love; and Love is all good; as God is all good.
The holy spirit strives in each of us and when we cannot all speak from the heart but must intend truth then we must worship the spirit in truth.
As we cannot all be made perfect due to sin, we all strive for the image of perfection while seeking god, thus we gain a greater understanding of god as we seek. Seek and ye shall find. knock and it shall be opened. Its all about perception.

 

[FreezBee]

5. Natural evils?- you have explain this to me?
Any one care to answer number 5

Right away, sir!

When we talk about "natural evils", we refer to such phenomena as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes, and so on that may kill people, that is, they are attributed evilness, because of their damage, not because of any actual intension to do damage. This is a remnant of thoughts of prior times, where nature was supposed to be controlled by metaphysical beings. We are simply appluing an outdated world-view, and there are no "natural evils". If we fear volcanoes, then we should simply not live near volcanoes, and so on.


- FreezBee

 

[b4uris]

When we talk about "natural evils", we refer to such phenomena as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes, and so on that may kill people, that is, they are attributed evilness, because of their damage, not because of any actual intension to do damage. This is a remnant of thoughts of prior times, where nature was supposed to be controlled by metaphysical beings. We are simply appluing an outdated world-view, and there are no "natural evils". If we fear volcanoes, then we should simply not live near volcanoes, and so on.

Well, it's true that those things aren't evil outside of human perception. The problem is that if God created them then the objection still holds because as a moral being He would be responsible for their impact.

 

[xAtheistx]

Well, to even answer that question, we have to assume that God conforms to human ideas about evil, love, and goodness and that we can understand how God works.

Weren't we supposedly made in his image? Are you implying that we supposedly gave ourselves morals, that may differ from God's? He may approve of abortion, homosexuality, and raising taxes?

I refuse to believe that there is any deity out there who is less moral than myself. (And I refer you to Epicurus' quote).

 

[Stellar Vision]

A simpler assumption in my view would be that there is no evil. Of course that might also not require a God.

 

[TeddyKGB]

When we talk about "natural evils", we refer to such phenomena as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes, and so on that may kill people, that is, they are attributed evilness, because of their damage, not because of any actual intension to do damage. This is a remnant of thoughts of prior times, where nature was supposed to be controlled by metaphysical beings. We are simply appluing an outdated world-view, and there are no "natural evils". If we fear volcanoes, then we should simply not live near volcanoes, and so on.

That is a pretty simplistic answer. People rarely establish civilizations randomly or arbitrarily. It is easy to say that New Orleans should not have been established at the mouth of the Mississippi if the residents feared flooding and hurricanes, but the necessity of a saltwater port with access to the US's largest freshwater transport network was much more pressing.