Probability of Origin of Life by Chance just went way UP.

[DogmaHunter]

What if the opposite is true? We find 1000 of planets perfectly suitable for life, but no trace of life is found to exist on them, what would you think then?

Well, it would increase the likelhood of life originating to be a very rare event.

Which would be bad news to molecular biologists, as that would mean that their jobs just became a lot harder.

Because to then find out how life can come into existance, one would have to be looking for a mechanism that has many, many different variables and conditions that need to be met in order to be a very rare event.

I know several creationists reading that will now have a tendency to jump on it and call me a materialist and whatnot... but they'ld be wrong. Here's why....

Notice that in my wording, I didn't rule out any kind of intentional / artificial act of creation (by anybody). The problem is that (that type of) creationism is ultimatly an argument from ignorance. "science can't explain it, therefor god".

That's not how logic works. Saying that a deity did it, is a claim that requires its own support. And that support can't be "well, X can't explain it" or "this book says so".


So to summarize...

It would mean that the job of the scientists investigating the origin of life, is harder then expected.

 

[Oncedeceived]

How would any fact change anything about religious beliefs - especially fundamentalistic ones?

I guess that would depend on what you meant by that.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

A habitable planet has been discovered a mere 1400 light years away. Considering our tiny galaxy spans a 100,000 light years but still has a hundred billion stars this indicates a dramatic increase in the likely number of habitable planets. Our galaxy may be full of them. If life originates by chance, the more habitable planets the greater the odds that life will originate. You guys believing in a 6 day creation event better start rethinking your positions.

http://www.theladbible.com/articles...lanet-they-re-almost-certain-can-support-life

Yah so what? Some also believed life existed on Mars too, or the moon of Jupiter. Can't even back up that claim yet, let alone something 1400 light years away. Especially when even the star - which is how many times larger than earth - merely appears as a point of light in any telescope.

And please show me anywhere in the Bible where it says life was not created all over the universe? Besides the conceit of some that think God created the entire universe just for them and they are the center of it all. Such as the Big Bang or redshift theory which also places us in the center of the universe?

Imagine all you want - just don't expect me to take their assumptions as fact. An act of faith if you like. Besides, since God created life on this planet and the entire universe - the odds are certainly that He created it elsewhere too, or why create an infinite universe? You have simply increased the odds of creation being more correct, as the odds still don't change for how life came to be - no matter how many planets there are that are capable of supporting life.

And if the star it orbits is but a point of light - what's that planet look like???? Ahh, just artists renderings I see on the link provided. Shall we compare our best photos of Pluto by Hubble at a mere 32.6 AU?

Seems to me a lot of imagination and faith is involved to even start talking about life on other planets.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

But lets take a look at those planets with the data provided, shall we?

Tell me, which ones of those do you imagine are capable of supporting life?

Which one of these is it?

 

[Givemeareason]

Both intelligent design and creationism suggest the universe was created in a purposeful way. Or that creation was guided by an intelligence. When asked how, it is the Genesis creation story which is reconciled in some manner by either reinterpreting Genesis to fit science or by denying or disputing science. The existence of all these planets strongly contradicts this and suggests random creation in which planets are formed and most are destined for meaningless existence. Yet once in a great while, planets are formed similar to ours. Since 80 percent of the time life has existed here it has been in microbial form, it does not appear likely there will be anything with intelligence. So again, this points to the fact that the creator does not have a clear and guided intent. Why would a purposeful God create all this wasted effort? God at least likes to play dice.

 

[Strathos]

How are you so sure it's wasted? We have hardly any idea what's out there.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Both intelligent design and creationism suggest the universe was created in a purposeful way. Or that creation was guided by an intelligence. When asked how, it is the Genesis creation story which is reconciled in some manner by either reinterpreting Genesis to fit science or by denying or disputing science. The existence of all these planets strongly contradicts this and suggests random creation in which planets are formed and most are destined for meaningless existence. Yet once in a great while, planets are formed similar to ours. Since 80 percent of the time life has existed here it has been in microbial form, it does not appear likely there will be anything with intelligence. So again, this points to the fact that the creator does not have a clear and guided intent. Why would a purposeful God create all this wasted effort? God at least likes to play dice.

There's nothing "random" about it. We have precise mathematical laws to describe what we see - precisely because there is nothing random about it. Laws we can apply consistently, time after time after time. No one is disputing the science except those claiming randomness. Are you saying the constants are not really constants? that 1 + 1 can give me 3?

Or maybe you prefer fantasy math where we start with a missing apple -1 subtract, another missing apple -1 and end up with two real apples? Love to be able to use that math anywhere in the real world.

What makes you think God created any wasted effort? You are arguing for the possibility of life on other planets - while denying the possibility the same God that created life on this planet couldn't have or wouldn't have created it elsewhere. A self-contradictory argument. We do say it was created in a purposeful way - we just admit we haven't a clue as to whether there exists life on other planets. Please, feel free to speculate all you like. I for one believe it almost impossible to think God created the entire infinite universe just for us. We are but one amongst a universe of created life.

Once again - the number of planets that "may" be capable of supporting life, does not change the odds of that life happening in the first place. And from the actual data - I'd say it's all just Fairie Dust.

Tell me - which one does the data say is capable of supporting life from the data above? The actual survey data.

 

[Givemeareason]

Back when I was a teenager, one of my first questions was why did God create all the other planets in our solar system. What good are they I asked. And of course my youth pastor had no answer. But back then creationism had died down and then we didn't worry about it much. Everything I have seen and read of in both nature and astronomy, my favorite, indicates everything has happened randomly. My view is randomness is just another law of the universe, God's undisclosed will if you like. I have no idea what sort of math could even predict when and where habitable planets might occur. But I am sure even that has been argued here. It's really just a matter of choosing a belief vs. accepting science in my view. Trying to make Genesis look like science is pretty futile. If you think this is a purposeful universe in which all the useless stars, planets and likely microbial life forms exist and have existed for billions of years, how do you see that as purposeful vs random. Show me the math. I am willing to listen.

 

[Givemeareason]

There's nothing "random" about it. We have precise mathematical laws to describe what we see - precisely because there is nothing random about it. Laws we can apply consistently, time after time after time. No one is disputing the science except those claiming randomness. Are you saying the constants are not really constants? that 1 + 1 can give me 3?

Or maybe you prefer fantasy math where we start with a missing apple -1 subtract, another missing apple -1 and end up with two real apples? Love to be able to use that math anywhere in the real world.

What makes you think God created any wasted effort? You are arguing for the possibility of life on other planets - while denying the possibility the same God that created life on this planet couldn't have or wouldn't have created it elsewhere. A self-contradictory argument. We do say it was created in a purposeful way - we just admit we haven't a clue as to whether there exists life on other planets. Please, feel free to speculate all you like. I for one believe it almost impossible to think God created the entire infinite universe just for us. We are but one amongst a universe of created life.

Once again - the number of planets that "may" be capable of supporting life, does not change the odds of that life happening in the first place. And from the actual data - I'd say it's all just Fairie Dust.

Tell me - which one does the data say is capable of supporting life from the data above? The actual survey data.

I responded above also but not directly to you. However God's purpose as expressed to us is to be worshped and follow his laws as expressed in the bible. If that be the case, why has it taken so long to get around to this? Why, as I said in my above post, does he act in such seemingly random ways. To not notice or wonder about such things seems to be at least taking a great deal for granted.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Both intelligent design and creationism suggest the universe was created in a purposeful way. Or that creation was guided by an intelligence. When asked how, it is the Genesis creation story which is reconciled in some manner by either reinterpreting Genesis to fit science or by denying or disputing science. The existence of all these planets strongly contradicts this and suggests random creation in which planets are formed and most are destined for meaningless existence. Yet once in a great while, planets are formed similar to ours. Since 80 percent of the time life has existed here it has been in microbial form, it does not appear likely there will be anything with intelligence. So again, this points to the fact that the creator does not have a clear and guided intent. Why would a purposeful God create all this wasted effort? God at least likes to play dice.

Even if there were no other planets or environments for life in our universe it is not a waste. The universe is the exact right size with the right amount of stars for intelligent life to exist on earth. If smaller life would not exist as we know it.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I responded above also but not directly to you. However God's purpose as expressed to us is to be worshped and follow his laws as expressed in the bible. If that be the case, why has it taken so long to get around to this? Why, as I said in my above post, does he act in such seemingly random ways. To not notice or wonder about such things seems to be at least taking a great deal for granted.

The reason for this is not that we take anything for granted but we have knowledge that you and others do not possess. Christians, have personal knowledge of God. That is the controlling factor in our conclusions and the way we view the world.

 

[lesliedellow]

In the first place, it is difficult to see how the existence of other Earth like planets (if they are Earth like) is of any relevance to whether or not life can arise as a pure fluke. Secondly the distance of a planet from its star are pretty slim grounds for announcing it to be habitable. Perhaps it has got an atmosphere full of sulphur trioxide.

 

[Givemeareason]

The reason for this is not that we take anything for granted but we have knowledge that you and others do not possess. Christians, have personal knowledge of God. That is the controlling factor in our conclusions and the way we view the world.

I am not questioning God. I am only observing how God seems to work. If you had no preconceived notion of Genesis I think you would notice the same thing. I noticed it when I was a teenager. There is an awful lot of excess baggage laying around in the universe for God to have wanted to create us. Just so we could worship him? He seems to run one messy house.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I am not questioning God. I am only observing how God seems to work. If you had no preconceived notion of Genesis I think you would notice the same thing. I noticed it when I was a teenager. There is an awful lot of excess baggage laying around in the universe for God to have wanted to create us. Just so we could worship him? He seems to run one messy house.

It only looks that way when you are looking at generalities. When you start looking up close you see the amazing intelligence behind it all.

 

[Givemeareason]

It only looks that way when you are looking at generalities. When you start looking up close you see the amazing intelligence behind it all.

And up close you are missing the bigger picture. If everyone kept telling me I was wrong, I would certainly be doing a bit of self examination before engaging in conspiratorial thinking claiming the entire scientific community was against me and they were all wrong.

 

[Smidlee]

Since 80 percent of the time life has existed here it has been in microbial form, it does not appear likely there will be anything with intelligence. So again, this points to the fact that the creator does not have a clear and guided intent. Why would a purposeful God create all this wasted effort? God at least likes to play dice.

Did you know that microbe are important to keep you alive? This is, of course, a religious statement and is outside of science.

 

[Oncedeceived]

And up close you are missing the bigger picture. If everyone kept telling me I was wrong, I would certainly be doing a bit of self examination before engaging in conspiratorial thinking claiming the entire scientific community was against me and they were all wrong.

What are you referring to?

 

[mmksparbud]

What's wasted about all those planets?? And we have no idea what is in store for them when this world and this heavens are remade. Has it occurred to you that perhaps their purpose is yet to be?? Maybe one of them may be yours to play with!! In the meantime, they have been pretty lights, and now objects of study. Can you imagine looking up at the sky and seeing nothing?? Boring! Now---I do not now if this still holds true, but at one time, this was the only planet that you could stand on the surface of and see out into the universe. All the others had atmospheres that prevented that. You could from some moons, but not the planets. They may have discovered something different lately. That would be depressing, seeing nothing but some sort of fog. And we do not know enough everything about gravitational pull to know if maybe they exert some sort of influence on this planet and would happen if they weren't there.

 

[Givemeareason]

What are you referring to?

I have been over that before. Sigh.

 

[Givemeareason]

Did you know that microbe are important to keep you alive? This is, of course, a religious statement and is outside of science.

Did you know that they have found that microbes inside you can even influence the way you think?