Pro-Life Protesting Behavior

[Steezie]

Lynn, want to answer the other question i asked you? Id also like to see your evidence that most christians are pro choice - since you did make that claim (wholly unsupported at that) In fact you insisted a person here was unknowlegable about the "facts" of it -yet ive seen no substatiation for it. Are we to take your word for it?

I know this wasnt adressed to me, but I've seen a large number of abortion polls here on CF and the majority of the votes were for allowing it.

I've seen it both in forums open to everyboddy and only to Christians

 

[kevin36]

You disagree that a protester's time could be better spent fundraising for women who have to take off time from work so they can give birth and give their newborns up for adoption, and for pre-and-post natal care, or helping stable families with adoptions costs so children can tranfer out of the foster care system and be adopted by loving, stable families? Or setting up full-service medical clinics for those with low incomes?

No, I disagree with the notion that just because someone is protesting outside of an abortion clinic means that they don't do fund-raising or any other type of activity.

That's what I call "Alice in Wonderland" thinking. "I breathe when I sleep doesn't mean I sleep when I breathe".

Just because someone protests in one way doesn't mean that they don't also protest in another way.

You can't assume anything about a person's actions by any other action. All you can know is what you see of them right them- that they're protesting in front of that clinic.

 

[kevin36]

Please use one of the following terms :

Zygote, Blastocyst, Embryo or Fetus.

Anything else is a lying and an emotional appeal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_development_(biology)#Physical_stages

Like I said before, I don't care what the dictionary defination is, a baby is still a baby.

Calling it anything else is just a way people can make themselves feel better about ending it's life. "It's not a baby, see? It's just a zygote/blastocyst/embryo/fetus..."

There, doesn't that make it all better?

 

[SallyNow]

Why are so few wanting to stay on the topic of the thread - that is, the rude and even illegal behaviour shown by some anti-abortion protesters.

Yes, there are real pro-lifers out there who do proactive things to help women who are unexpectantly pregnant, such as providing OBGYN care, or helping them pay the bills when the woman has to take time off work and/or school to give birth, and that help families of average income pay the high adoption fees. There are also prolifers who help women have access to contraception, who help men have access to condom, who teach both men and women responsibility.

There are also disgraceful anti-abortion protesters who are all talk, no help. People who yell and scream at women entering clinics, not knowing why a woman is going in, not caring what will happen if she doesn't get the abortion, not really knowing anything except that they want power over those women's lives.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

No, I disagree with the notion that just because someone is protesting outside of an abortion clinic means that they don't do fund-raising or any other type of activity.

That's what I call "Alice in Wonderland" thinking. "I breathe when I sleep doesn't mean I sleep when I breathe".

Just because someone protests in one way doesn't mean that they don't also protest in another way.

You can't assume anything about a person's actions by any other action. All you can know is what you see of them right them- that they're protesting in front of that clinic.

It certainly is true that people may participate in more than one volunteer activity.

However, there are PROBABLY more people who ONLY volunteer in one activity, rather than several, and I am yet to be convinced that so called "sidewalk counselling" does anything but offer a sanctimonious excuse for bullying the scared and the vulnerable.

I'd much rather see people putting their effort into something with more tangible results...

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Like I said before, I don't care what the dictionary defination is, a baby is still a baby.

Calling it anything else is just a way people can make themselves feel better about ending it's life. "It's not a baby, see? It's just a zygote/blastocyst/embryo/fetus..."

There, doesn't that make it all better?

What does a blastocyst have in common with a baby?

 

[Angel4Truth]

I guarantee you if what is stated in the OP actually happened the way it was presented, it would have been national news. Protestors cannot stand in the doorways of an abortion clinic because of buffer laws. I guarantee planned parenthood would have long called the authorities if protestors were in their doorway. Much less if people were assaulting their patients.

 

[kevin36]

Can you please show me where in the Bible it says that?

The only place that I'm aware of any discussion on the matter is in Exodus 21:22–25:



. . . which is very clearly saying that killing an unborn fetus deserves a fine. But if you kill a woman, then it's an eye for an eye. Which clearly demonstrates that the fetus's life is not as important as the mother's.

I take those verses to mean injury to the child whose birth was made premature, not the woman.

 

[kevin36]

This sort of self-admitted "Amazement" is why I suggested you need to educate yourself about Christianity. You are apparently not cognizant of the fact most Christians are pro-choice and the "fetus is a person" position is a recent fiction in contrast to centuries of wisdom otherwise.



I believe persons all are thus "worthy"....that does not change the fact a fetus is not a person.



There is certainly no evidence of this.



Not one whit. That would guarantee we lived in a fascist country and that subversion and-or rebellion had become necessary.

Wow.

Numbers that you use as proof that "most Christians" are in favor of abortion... I mean "pro-choice"?

What evidence do you need other than God's word that what He says is true? And I'm not trying to be smart withthat question, either... I really want to know.

 

[kevin36]

Christianity may mean "following Christ" but it is a religion nevertheless and to know about it is to know what its adherents believe, which you apparently don't. The Bible is entirely silent on the topic.



Oh, the penalty if two men are fighting and knock over a pregnant woman and cause a termination of the pregnancy? That's a property rights issue, nothing about abortion at all.

 

[kevin36]

One can be pro-lif and pro choice.

How's that work...?

 

[Angel4Truth]

I know this wasnt adressed to me, but I've seen a large number of abortion polls here on CF and the majority of the votes were for allowing it.

I've seen it both in forums open to everyboddy and only to Christians

Since abortion topics are limited to certain areas and by far the greatest number of posters in ethics and morality are not believers - i am not suprised at the poll results. The sampling of people who would have participated surely wouldnt cover the scope of this site and there would be no real way to measure the results because of sock accounts also.

However the link i provided as a sampling shows the RCC as the worlds largest christian denomination with over 1 billion members and the pope has stated that those who believe in abortion as an option should be excommunicated. So it stands to reason with only that sampling alone (not to mention the SBC in the US) if the adhearants actually subscribe to the tennants and teachings of the RCC then it already stands to reason that most christians are pro life and not pro choice. In fact if only a little more than half of those 2 groups were in agreement with their churches tennants - by far the overwhelming magority would still be that most christians are pro life in belief.

There has also been no substantiation whatever for the erroneous (unfactual) claim made by Texas lynn that says most christians are pro choice.

 

[Angel4Truth]

People who yell and scream at women entering clinics, not knowing why a woman is going in, not caring what will happen if she doesn't get the abortion, not really knowing anything except that they want power over those women's lives.

You know the intents of people you dont know? It couldnt possibly have anything to do with caring about the persons eternal soul or caring about their unborn child or caring that they might be making a choice that they will end regretting for the rest of their life?

Tell me, what power does someone gain over attempting to have them question what they are about to do?

 

[PassionFruit]

I personally don't see how yelling and screaming at these young women who enter the clinics is in an indication that the protesters care about the woman's eternal soul, unborn child, etc.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

How's that work...?

Easy enough. I am pro life, I think abortion is rarely the best option, and I would very much liek tohelp reduce abortion rates.

I am pro choice because I accept that, while I have reasons for my own views, and I think they are valid, I admit that I don't have all the answers, and I can't answer for anyone else about such a personal matter. I DON'T believe that just because I think something is wrong, everyone else should think so too. I don't think I have the right to legislate what anyone else does with their own body.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Tell me, what power does someone gain over attempting to have them question what they are about to do?

Hurling abuse at people, I believe, is far more about an opportunity to bully people with an excuse than it is about saving anyone's soul

Banning abortion outright AND limiting availability of contraceptives AND income support for low income mothers (3 suggestions many pro-lifers seem to think go hand in hand) strikes me as being far more about dictating what other people do in their own bedrooms than it is about saving cute little foetuses

 

[MooCar93]

You know the intents of people you dont know? It couldnt possibly have anything to do with caring about the persons eternal soul or caring about their unborn child or caring that they might be making a choice that they will end regretting for the rest of their life?

Jesus told us that "by their fruits, you shall know them."

I'm sorry, I don't see where screaming abuse at women entering clinics is any evidence whatsoever of love and compassion for women and the fetuses they may or may not be carrying.

Tell me, what power does someone gain over attempting to have them question what they are about to do?

I have to agree with EnemyParty here. The ultimate goal of the Pro-Life movement (at least insofar as I can see) is getting the government to ban abortion. That is FAR more than just making women "question" their choice - that's completely taking their choice away from them. Besides, do we really think women who go to clinics for abortions do so that flippantly? There is a LOT of questioning and soul-searching that goes into that process.

 

[PassionFruit]

How's that work...?

Being pro-life and pro-choice is possible.

I believe that women shouldn't have to make the decision to terminate their pregnancies, but unfortunately that's not the world we live in.

Being pro-choice can mean a variety of things. For me, pro-choice isn't just about having the option of abortion, it's about wanting children whenever you decide you want them. It means deciding how many children you want, etc.

I feel that we in a time in which we can greatly reduce the need for abortions, which to me is good, because there have been times (and is still true in some parts of the world) in which abortion was used as birth control. However, in our time it doesn't have to be this way.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Hurling abuse at people, I believe, is far more about an opportunity to bully people with an excuse than it is about saving anyone's soul

Banning abortion outright AND limiting availability of contraceptives AND income support for low income mothers (3 suggestions many pro-lifers seem to think go hand in hand) strikes me as being far more about dictating what other people do in their own bedrooms than it is about saving cute little foetuses

Im sorry , where did i say anything about contraception ??

What a way to twist my post ! I believe i adressed someone claiming they know someone elses motives - so is this a claim from you that you know mine and what I think now too? I have no trouble with contraception.

We could all communicate better if people wouldnt interject propaganda with their responses.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Im sorry , where did i say anything about contraception ??

What a way to twist my post ! I believe i adressed someone claiming they know someone elses motives - so is this a claim from you that you know mine and what I think now too? I have no trouble with contraception.

We could all communicate better if people wouldnt interject propaganda with their responses.

I don't claim to have any idea about your position on contraception...

but you asked how the way militant pro-lifer' treat women who are considering abortion is about power... I am attempting to explain to you how I think some people use the issue to make themselves more powerful.

I don't even think MOST pro-lifers want to ban abortion AND contraception AND financial aid... but those that DO, I believe, do so from a desire to have power over people's sex lives, not to alter abortion rates.