Pro-Life Protesting Behavior

[Steezie]

So is there no differance between a disease and murder?

If the disease is contracted through normal circumstances then of course there is. When that disease is caused by direct human action and leads to the death of the child, then no there isnt a difference.

Catching a disease is outside of moral consideration, unless you want to debate whether or not God has morals, but intentionally choosing to end the life of any person, be it an unborn child or not, is far from outside morality.

Lung cancer from second-hand smoke and diabeties from excess sugar is human-created, not other-worldly inspired.

No, neither lung cancer nor diabetes are good, but then again I don't intentionally inflict them on somebody, either.

You may not but thousands of people do, I dont see you protesting against shops that sell cigarettes or boycotting companies that load foods with sugar.

Your comparing of a disease to an intentional murder is almost laughable, if it weren't such a sad reflection of how low a price our society has put on human life.

Lung disease caused by direct human action that results in the death of someone IS murder. In California, if you have sex with someone and knowingly have HIV, you are required to notify that person because if they die an HIV-related death after sex with you (Provided they contract the disease) you can be charged with first degree murder if you didnt notify that person.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

If the disease is contracted through normal circumstances then of course there is. When that disease is caused by direct human action and leads to the death of the child, then no there isnt a difference.

Lung cancer from second-hand smoke and diabeties from excess sugar is human-created, not other-worldly inspired.

You may not but thousands of people do, I dont see you protesting against shops that sell cigarettes or boycotting companies that load foods with sugar.

Lung disease caused by direct human action that results in the death of someone IS murder. In California, if you have sex with someone and knowingly have HIV, you are required to notify that person because if they die an HIV-related death after sex with you (Provided they contract the disease) you can be charged with first degree murder if you didnt notify that person.

I'll just throw in again here... irresponsible use of alcohol causes more suffering than abortion ever will.

I'm yet to see Christian protesters with placards showing FAS babies, screming "drunken alcoholic bum" type epithets at all entering a liquor store or pub.

I guess its similar to the way animal rights fundamentalists will throw paint on a woman in a fur coat, but not on a Hell's Angel in a leather jacket.

*sigh* any form of bullying sickens me.

 

[Angel4Truth]

How many pregnant women do you see entering a liquor store on a daily basis that you know for a fact is buying liquor for themselves ??

 

[SallyNow]

I'll just throw in again here... irresponsible use of alcohol causes more suffering than abortion ever will.

I'm yet to see Christian protesters with placards showing FAS babies, screming "drunken alcoholic bum" type epithets at all entering a liquor store or pub.

I guess its similar to the way animal rights fundamentalists will throw paint on a woman in a fur coat, but not on a Hell's Angel in a leather jacket.

*sigh* any form of bullying sickens me.

Agreed.

How many pregnant women do you see entering a liquor store on a daily basis that you know for a fact is buying liquor for themselves ??

Probably about the same amount of women who are going in to get purely elective abortion at a OBGYN clinic.

The assumption that a visibly pregnant woman is walking into an OBGYN clinic that performs abortions to get an elective abortion is absurd. Most elective abortions are done within the first few months of pregnancy - once a "baby bump" appears, it is more likely and more likely that any abortion done is for medical reasons, and average pro-life protesters do not have the medical knowledge to get involved inbetween a woman and her doctor.

The assumption that a woman who is not visibly pregnant who is walking into an OBGYN clinic that performs abortions is going there to get an elective abortion is equally absurd. A medical clinic is a medical clinic, and those women being yelled at may have going through very tragic circumstances. Even if they are not, they do not deserve to be yelled at and verbally assaulted.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

How many pregnant women do you see entering a liquor store on a daily basis that you know for a fact is buying liquor for themselves ??

Well lets see, shall we? Lets look up FAS...

FASD is the leading known preventable cause of mental retardation and birth defects.

• FASD affects 1 in 100 live births or as many as 40,000 infants each year.
• An individual with fetal alcohol syndrome can incur a lifetime health cost of over $800,000.
• In 2003, fetal alcohol syndrome cost the United States $5.4 billiondirect costs were $3.9 billion, while indirect costs added another $1.5 billion.
• Children do not outgrow FASD. The physical and behavioral problems can last for a lifetime.
• FAS and FASD are found in all racial and socio-economic groups.
• FAS and FASD are not genetic disorders. Women with FAS or affected by FASD have healthy babies if they do not drink alcohol during their pregnancy.

http://www.nofas.org/faqs.aspx?id=12

So there you go. In answer to your question, we KNOW that at least 40,000 women in the united states, per year, drank a damaging quantity of alcohol. Note this figures refer ONLY to FAS, and do not reflect low birth weight, premature birth, visceral organ damage, and the raft of other pathologies we know alcohol can cause in the foetus... and we ALSO know that there wil be a lot of women who drink alcohol while pregnant and are lucky, in that the infant shows no imediate symptoms...

So feel free to estimate, but your number should be significantly > 40,000/365

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The assumption that a woman who is not visibly pregnant who is walking into an OBGYN clinic that performs abortions is going there to get an elective abortion is equally absurd. A medical clinic is a medical clinic, and those women being yelled at may have going through very tragic circumstances. Even if they are not, they do not deserve to be yelled at and verbally assaulted.

Not to mention the absurdity that a woman walking into such a clinic deserves to be called a harlot or similar.

Anecdote... A friend of mine, an artist I greatly respect, was pregnant 2 years ago, and very excited about the baby... had actively tried to get pregnant. However, when the pregnancy was advanced enough for an amniocentesis, the news came back that the baby would be extremely handicapped, and she and the rest of her family (including, please note, her HUSBAND) together, made the very difficult decision to terminate the pregnancy, and, for obvious reasons, this occured when she was advanced enough for a baby bump to show.

I don't know the specific details, but she did tell me she recieved a lot of flak on here way in, and the whole experience has been rather traumatic for her...

 

[MooCar93]

I guess its similar to the way animal rights fundamentalists will throw paint on a woman in a fur coat, but not on a Hell's Angel in a leather jacket.

I love this point, EnemyParty!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I love this point, EnemyParty!

Aw shucks sweety, I'm blushing!

 

[Texas Lynn]

I demonstrate outside of abortion clinics, usually on Saturday mornings. The "harlot" comment probably would not accomplish anything - perhaps a new person showed up. We normally have signs with words as well as signs with pictures of both aborted not-aborted unborn children.

I usually try to start a conversation before I hand the lady/girl literature. Shoving it in her face would probably not coax her to read it.

We have one lady that shows up occasionally and she sometimes says things to abortion bound girls that I would consider ineffective and actually might work against our efforts, and so I always am glad when she does not show up.

There is not much you can do - people have a right to show up at the clinics. Most of the prayer warriers and sidewalk counselors are top-notch so this renegade lady is not too much of a problem.

That scenario may have occurred in your situation as you see it but it appears to be far from typical. The shouting of racist, sexist, and homophobic slogans, often by large males, is common among this group.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I was struck by the fairly dispassionate tone of your attitude towards the women or girls who are faced with verbal assault when they go into a Planned Parenthood. First of all, how do you know which girls are having abortions? Do they have a big "A" pinned on their chests? Many girls might be going to get birth control and physical examinations. Is the assumption that all women and girls who go to Planned Parenthood are "harlots" anyway, so you might as well unload your propaganda on all of them?

It seems this is often the case. The contempt of women expressed by the protestors is phenomenal.

Also many protestors are also opposed to birth control.

Most girls and women who decide to abortions don't do so lightheartedly. They may feel sad, guilty, scared, emotionally upset due to possible family strife over the matter.

Most? Just about all is more like it.

Showing pictures of aborted fetuses, calling the clients "harlots" is not only "not effective", it's cruel.

In some cases that may be the point.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I'm certainly against everything that KILLS children. That is what this is about, right? Not just harming them, but actually killing them.

No, it's about abortion.

It amazes me to read this thread... especially the Christians who approve of abortions. Incredibly.

Perhaps you need to obtain an education about Christianity, but please show some documentation of anyone's "approving" of abortion here. Come on.

For those Christians- remember inthe Bible where it says that God knew us before we were born? Where David says God knit him together in his mother's womb? How can a Christian read these verses and still say that a baby isn't a "child" or "human" until it's outside of it's mother?

And for those and anybody else who says it's nobody else's business but the mother and the abortion "provider", yes, it is somebody else's business.

I've noticed a strong trend on CF for people to say "As long as it doesn't hurt me, whatever you choose to do is okay with me." How selfish and irresponsible can you be? Should we just sit around and let people kill our children just because it doesn't concern us directly?

You can debate the semantics of the terms all day long, and the morality of the procedure as well, if you want, but there's really no need.

Some of us still believe in moral absolutes, and killing a child should never be allowed, much less promoted so agggressively

Show now where abortion is "promoted agressively".

There is no reason other than emotionalism to equate a fetus with a post-birth child whatsoever. The Bible says absolutely zero about abortion.

 

[Texas Lynn]

...intentionally choosing to end the life of any person, be it an unborn child or not, is far from outside morality.

That would make sense except an "unborn child" is not a person.

such a sad reflection of how low a price our society has put on human life.

Please. You have politicians claiming they're "pro-life" while support sweatshop labor, opposing the rights of workers to organize, opposing school lunch programs, opposing assistance for families, supporting invasion and occupation of other countries including the collateral damage that entails often to children, etc. and you make that claim about a normal procedure which is not even involving a person? No wonder people deride the anti-abortion extremists so if that's the type of myopic vision they have.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I'll just throw in again here... irresponsible use of alcohol causes more suffering than abortion ever will.

I'm yet to see Christian protesters with placards showing FAS babies, screming "drunken alcoholic bum" type epithets at all entering a liquor store or pub.

I guess its similar to the way animal rights fundamentalists will throw paint on a woman in a fur coat, but not on a Hell's Angel in a leather jacket.

*sigh* any form of bullying sickens me.

You might have seen such a thing if the concept of FAS had been clear in Carrie Nation's day.

 

[Texas Lynn]

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to enemy party II again.

 

[Steezie]

How many pregnant women do you see entering a liquor store on a daily basis that you know for a fact is buying liquor for themselves ??

As someone said before, probably the same number of women that you see walking into a Planned Parenthood clinic that you know for sure is getting an abortion

 

[Bianca87]

I guess its similar to the way animal rights fundamentalists will throw paint on a woman in a fur coat,

i'm not a foundie or anything, but i am strongly anti-fur.
i don't understand how you can compare a person who thinks is ok to kill for the only purpose of fashion and don't even ask themeselves wheter this is right or wrong and will only end up having a coat ruined to women who are facing a really hard moment in their life, probably feel guilty and insecure and get attacked by a stranger who makes them feel like harlots and criminals. there's no way is the same...

 

[MooCar93]

i'm not a foundie or anything, but i am strongly anti-fur.
i don't understand how you can compare a person who thinks is ok to kill for the only purpose of fashion and don't even ask themeselves wheter this is right or wrong and will only end up having a coat ruined to women who are facing a really hard moment in their life, probably feel guilty and insecure and get attacked by a stranger who makes them feel like harlots and criminals. there's no way is the same...

I think what Enemy Party meant here, Bianca (and I may be way off here), is that, in both cases, extremist protestors are picking on people they are reasonably sure will not fight back. If it were a 250-lb, 6'5 male biker going in for an abortion, I have to wonder whether these protestors would be so bold.

 

[Texas Lynn]

i'm not a foundie or anything, but i am strongly anti-fur.
i don't understand how you can compare a person who thinks is ok to kill for the only purpose of fashion and don't even ask themeselves wheter this is right or wrong and will only end up having a coat ruined to women who are facing a really hard moment in their life, probably feel guilty and insecure and get attacked by a stranger who makes them feel like harlots and criminals. there's no way is the same...

I don't have any furs but It's due to economics and a desire to not be ostentatious not out of love for critters. But I see your points. The Animal Rights crowd is obnoxious but the anti abort extremists are worse because they prey on vulnerable young women.

 

[kevin36]

No, it's about abortion.



Perhaps you need to obtain an education about Christianity, but please show some documentation of anyone's "approving" of abortion here. Come on.



Show now where abortion is "promoted agressively".

There is no reason other than emotionalism to equate a fetus with a post-birth child whatsoever. The Bible says absolutely zero about abortion.

So this isn't about killing children... it;s about abortion? Hello... abortion IS killing children. Call a spade a spade.

I need no education about Christianity, believe me.

Where is abortion promoted aggressively? Let's see... the Supreme Court, the newsparers, television, and anywhere the ACLU opens their mouths...

And yes, the Bible does speak to abortion. People love to quote "an eye for an eye..", but almost nobody knows where it comes from. It's in the Old Testament, in a section describing what punishment any person who harms an unborn child should recieve. If the child lost an eye, the person who caused it was to loose an eye; if the child suffered any other injury, the offender was to recieve the same injury; if the child died... well, I'll let you figure that part out.

I don't advocate murdering anyone, but don't try and tell me the Bible doesn't have anything to say about abortion.

Back then, the pagans would sacrifice their children to their gods, but look how far we've come... Now we only sacrifice them to our own vanity.

 

[Texas Lynn]

So this isn't about killing children... it;s about abortion? Hello... abortion IS killing children. Call a spade a spade.

Sorry, you are mistaken.

I need no education about Christianity, believe me.

Really? Your previous post indicated a noncognizance about the actual beliefs of many Christians.

Where is abortion promoted aggressively? Let's see... the Supreme Court, the newsparers, television, and anywhere the ACLU opens their mouths...

That's got to be one of the most ridiculous assertions ever made on CF, not that there's anything wrong with that.

And yes, the Bible does speak to abortion. People love to quote "an eye for an eye..", but almost nobody knows where it comes from. It's in the Old Testament, in a section describing what punishment any person who harms an unborn child should recieve. If the child lost an eye, the person who caused it was to loose an eye; if the child suffered any other injury, the offender was to recieve the same injury; if the child died... well, I'll let you figure that part out.

I don't advocate murdering anyone, but don't try and tell me the Bible doesn't have anything to say about abortion.

You have yet to refute the assertion.

Back then, the pagans would sacrifice their children to their gods, but look how far we've come... Now we only sacrifice them to our own vanity.

It's getting mighty deep around here.