Pro-Abortionists: Where on this chart is it just a clump of cells and not a human baby?

[CaptainToad]

And it is fine for you to feel this way. But lets say someone disagrees with you and feel that they arent disrespecting life or treating it like garbage? Should they be forced to abide by your beliefs simply because you believe them? And if so.....would you be ok with being forced to do something that you did not want to do, simple because someone else thought it it just to do so?

If you dont mind, then you are right to desire to take away the choices of others while disregarding their feelings about it......because you will only be treating others as you would have them treat you.

And I am doing the same because i desire to be able to act within my own moral standard without fear of having to change them because of the opinion of another.

We are still talking about murder, right?

Look, this abortion thing has turned philosophical, scientifical and what not, only to make people feel at ease (sort of). To make them know it's fine, your choice.
If the state allows it, it's not illegal it's not bad.
Bottomline: It's murder, one by one, but ends up on a massive scale, EACH YEAR.

Not all things are legal. Drugs for example. Why not make drugs pro-choice?

 

[RaymondG]

We are still talking about murder, right?

No, I was never talking about murder.

Look, this abortion thing has turned philosophical, scientifical and what not, only to make people feel at ease (sort of). To make them know it's fine, your choice.
If the state allows it, it's not illegal it's not bad.

Whether the state legalizes it or not, I would not agree with the idea of it.

Bottomline: It's murder, one by one, but ends up on a massive scale, EACH YEAR.

You believe it to be murder.......and that helps you get angry and angry at those who you believe to be ok with it. Yet the fruit of the spirit is slowness to anger and swiftness to show mercy.....But this is only evident in those filled with the spirit.

I dont need to equate the murder of a children in a playground to the termination of a pregnancy, that could kill the mother.....to advise others against using abortion as birth control.

And I can advise against this without feeling that I need to force others to follow my advise.

Not all things are legal. Drugs for example. Why not make drugs pro-choice?

More and more drugs are now becoming legal. Yet regardless of the changed in law, I would still advise against using them....and I will still not try to force others to not use, just because I would not.

 

[CaptainToad]

No, I was never talking about murder.


Whether the state legalizes it or not, I would not agree with the idea of it.


You believe it to be murder.......and that helps you get angry and angry at those who you believe to be ok with it. Yet the fruit of the spirit is slowness to anger and swiftness to show mercy.....But this is only evident in those filled with the spirit.

I dont need to equate the murder of a children in a playground to the termination of a pregnancy, that could kill the mother.....to advise others against using abortion as birth control.

And I can advise against this without feeling that I need to force others to follow my advise.


More and more drugs are now becoming legal. Yet regardless of the changed in law, I would still advise against using them....and I will still not try to force others to not use, just because I would not.

I think you are jumping to conclusions.

Abortions don't make me angry at all. In fact I do not feel anything when I hear the word.
All I know is that its murder when asked about my opinion.

I don't understand why you are so upset and defend this pro-choice thing. As christians we need to stand up against it.

 

[RaymondG]

I think you are jumping to conclusions.

Abortions don't make me angry at all. In fact I do not feel anything when I hear the word.
All I know is that its murder when asked about my opinion.

I don't understand why you are so upset and defend this pro-choice thing. As christians we need to stand up against it.

I would see no fault even if it did make you angry. Reading your words, or the words of anyone else, makes me feel nothing at all....

I also do not wish to defend any position nor do I consider myself to be on a side......although many prefer to put me in a group before engaging in conversation.

However, I would advise against abortion....the same way I would advise against the desire to stripe another of their will, in favor of your own. Yet I decide to find no fault or judge negatively, those who disagree with me......for if I did, it would go against the very choice that I desire others to have....and keep myself.

imagine if you were giving birth and were about to die.....But you wanted to give your life for your child to live........but you had no choice...because lawmakers and others with strong beliefs felt it more moral and beneficial for you to stay alive to take care of the family you already have. They felt it immoral to bring a child in the world knowing that is would have no mother to take care of it.

Why would you like this choice being made for you? Should you be able to decide this yourself? Should you not be able to give your life for your child if you so choose?

This is why I desire choice......everyone should be able to make and live with the choices they make....and not by choices forced upon them.

 

[CaptainToad]

I would see no fault even if it did make you angry. Reading your words, or the words of anyone else, makes me feel nothing at all....

I also do not wish to defend any position nor do I consider myself to be on a side......although many prefer to put me in a group before engaging in conversation.

However, I would advise against abortion....the same way I would advise against the desire to stripe another of their will, in favor of your own. Yet I decide to find no fault or judge negatively, those who disagree with me......for if I did, it would go against the very choice that I desire others to have....and keep myself.

imagine if you were giving birth and were about to die.....But you wanted to give your life for your child to live........but you had no choice...because lawmakers and others with strong beliefs felt it more moral and beneficial for you to stay alive to take care of the family you already have. They felt it immoral to bring a child in the world knowing that is would have no mother to take care of it.

Why would you like this choice being made for you? Should you be able to decide this yourself? Should you not be able to give your life for your child if you so choose?

This is why I desire choice......everyone should be able to make and live with the choices they make....and not by choices forced upon them.

Borderline situations exist and I am not gonna judge them nor would I tell anyone to go against better judgment and hope for a miracle.

But we aren't really talking about borderline (like rape etc) situations, aren't we?

Abortions are done at will, it's a new normal thing to do, let's get over it, right?
As christians we cannot accept that view.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we can make a difference in the world of abortions anymore! That ship has sailed! I am not gonna stand in front of an abortion clinic handing out fliers or something. Everyone has their own will and conscience AND CHOICE! I just express my opinion when asked and maybe someone will take it to heart and not have their unborn thrown into the garbage (yes, garbage because those little ones apparently aren't even worth a proper burial, sort of understandable but still worth noting)

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I'm sure that those are all babies
with a littl soul
and everything they need to grow.
M-Bob

 

[RaymondG]

I'm sure that those are all babies
with a littl soul
and everything they need to grow.
M-Bob

Yet, more than half of all pregnancies are aborted by the will of God, spontaneously. Do you think about those souls? What do you believe happens to those little souls?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Yet, more than half of all pregnancies are aborted by the will of God, spontaneously. Do you think about those souls? What do you believe happens to those little souls?

Does that give a man or woman the power to do the same?
M

 

[RaymondG]

Does that give a man or woman the power to do the same?
M

Do you feel that the souls aborted by man, are in worse conditions than those aborted by God?

I have always been against abortion. Just never understood the hate and condemnation that I am supposed to give those who believe everyone who be able to make their own choice.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Agreed, There is NO ONE who would say that believe that a baby, at any stage of development, should be terminated. The name calling is just a trick try and make those, who do not believe in forcing their will and beliefs on other, look bad.

Muslim extremists believe that American “infidels” should all be put to death but we push our beliefs of the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness on them. It’s just a matter of subjective morality.

 

[RaymondG]

Muslim extremists believe that American “infidels” should all be put to death but we push our beliefs of the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness on them. It’s just a matter of subjective morality.

Yes, and when the tables are turned and other religions are able to push there beliefs on us.....let us agree with it then......just as well as we agree now.

The desire to force my beliefs on others, is a seed I wish not to sow....for i would not like to reap the same.

I am speaking of things which are not already in law......I would not advise going against law for any reason......and there are things that are lawful which I find not expedient and, therefore, still would not do.

 

[98cwitr]

I am pro-choice: I support adoption for an unwanted child, as sad as it is. I am pro-family: If the mother can't raise the child, I support family members stepping in to care for that child. I speak condemnation on any father who abandons his children in accordance with Scripture. I am not pro-abortion; death shouldn't be a choice that's on the table.

 

[RaymondG]

I am pro-choice: I support adoption for an unwanted child, as sad as it is. I am pro-family: If the mother can't raise the child, I support family members stepping in to care for that child. I speak condemnation on any father who abandons his children in accordance with Scripture. I am not pro-abortion; death shouldn't be a choice that's on the table.

Since you say that you support abortion under certain circumstances, wouldnt that still be considered Pro-abortion?

Do you believe it possible to be pro-choice and be against all abortions for any reason?

E.g. be against is all, but desire that others choice their path for themselves?

 

[98cwitr]

Since you say that you support abortion under certain circumstances, wouldnt that still be considered Pro-abortion?

Do you believe it possible to be pro-choice and be against all abortions for any reason?

E.g. be against is all, but desire that others choice their path for themselves?

Where and when did I say that? Albeit, several years ago I did hold to the position that in cases of rape or incest, with a police report filed and documented, I would entertain the idea of a 5 week or less abortion (pre-heartbeat). Now I see that even that position is in error, given that birth control is so readily available, and that the morning-after pill is completely taxpayer funded for rape victims. I held this position because they only account for 1% of abortions, so I figured if we outlawed the 99%, that it would save millions of lives, and I wasn't wrong, but I don't support abortion at any point, for any reason. I have yet to see a case where "risking live of the mother" requires the baby to be killed. Even at 19 weeks, give the baby a chance...every chance. Even in cases of ectopic pregnancies, there is a minimally invasive surgery that can preserve both lives.

Do you believe it possible to be pro-choice and be against all abortions for any reason?

That sounds like a logical fallacy to me.

 

[RaymondG]

Where and when did I say that?

Maybe I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that you supported it here:

I am pro-choice: I support adoption for an unwanted child, as sad as it is.

Was this a sarcastic statement?

That sounds like a logical fallacy to me.

I see. How about this...... I am against guns for self defense, for religious reasons. Yet, I do not wish for it to be force by law that no one should be able to buy them because of my personal convictions.

Is it possible to feel this way, or is this a logical fallacy as well?

And if you can see this as being possible, How is it different from what I said above?...........being against abortion for any reason.....yet do not wish to taken away the choice of others.

 

[98cwitr]

Maybe I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that you supported it here:



Was this a sarcastic statement?

No, I am pro-choice, less abortion. Pro-abortionists include the death of a baby in the list of "choices." I don't, while still acknowledging that there are choices other than death.

I see. How about this...... I am against guns for self defense, for religious reasons. Yet, I do not wish for it to be force by law that no one should be able to buy them because of my personal convictions.

No strawmen plz, especially when one topic is enumerated explicitly as an inalienable right in our Constitution, and the other isn't.

Is it possible to feel this way, or is this a logical fallacy as well?

It's a strawman.

And if you can see this as being possible, How is it different from what I said above?...........being against abortion for any reason.....yet do not wish to taken away the choice of others.

People use guns for self defense, to feed themselves and their families, and to oppose tyranny. None of those are used in the case of abortion; not even self-defense. I have yet to see a medical case where the death of the child is the only option possible to save the life of the mother.

 

[RaymondG]

No, I am pro-choice, less abortion. Pro-abortionists include the death of a baby in the list of "choices." I don't, while still acknowledging that there are choices other than death.



No strawmen plz, especially when one topic is enumerated explicitly as an inalienable right in our Constitution, and the other isn't.



It's a strawman.



People use guns for self defense, to feed themselves and their families, and to oppose tyranny. None of those are used in the case of abortion; not even self-defense. I have yet to see a medical case where the death of the child is the only option possible to save the life of the mother.

Strawman? you mean, like, the one in the wizard of OZ?
My apologies, I thought we could reason together plainly.....I see now I must read up on debating terminology before I am able to fully understand what you are saying.

Waste no more time on me, I find little comfort in debating...

 

[98cwitr]

Strawman? you mean, like, the one in the wizard of OZ?
My apologies, I thought we could reason together plainly.....I see now I must read up on debating terminology before I am able to fully understand what you are saying.

No worries, was just calling it like I see it.

Strawman Fallacy

come to think of it, non-sequitur might be more accurate: Non Sequitur

Waste no more time on me, I find little comfort in debating...

I mean, the name of this forum is literally "Debates on Abortion."

 

[RaymondG]

No worries, was just calling it like I see it.

Strawman Fallacy

Thanks for the link..... I will have to read it and then hope I remember it the next time I try to reason with someone.

I miss the good ol days......when we could talk without having to declare a winner, and without needing a dictionary.

I mean, the name of this forum is literally "Debates on Abortion."

I noticed that when writing that comment.... I may have to request a "Come let us reason together, on Abortion" section....with no debating allowed.... We might be able to change more minds with peaceful conversation than with declaration like "You are a murderer if you do this!"

 

[grasping the after wind]

There is no such thing as a pro-abortionist.
There is one thing that a great many people don’t understand about being pro-choice. You do not have to morally agree with abortion to be pro-choice. That is why it is not called pro-abortion. It is an undertstanding that you can’t make that choice for someone else.

I think those people involved in the "shout your abortion" website might be considered pro abortion don't you?