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Pro-Abortion?

NDNgirl4ever

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It is a premature birth, a miscarriage would be the death of the child and as a result the death of the man whom caused it.

In the majority of cases, a premature birth would've been basically the same as a miscarriage back then.
 
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tyronem

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In the majority of cases, a premature birth would've been basically the same as a miscarriage back then.

Incorrect, the scripture is explicit, it assumes a premature birth as survivable because it then outlays what happens if anything other than previous happens. Only extremely prem babies require medical intervention.
 
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Ave Maria

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The fact is that abortion is the murdering of an unborn child. Someone who is "pro-choice" therefore is for the person being able to make the choice to murder their unborn child. Therefore it follows that they are pro-legal-abortion which could be shortened to pro-abortion. Personally I am not going to stop using the term pro-abortion when referring to those who claim to be "pro-choice".
 
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tyronem

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Exactly how does supporting the right of choice make one "Pro-Abortion"?

Pro-Choice is a word game created by child murderers to justify their own evil intent.

The FACT is that you are either for abortion or you are against it.

If I tell someone that I support their right to help choose the next president of the US, does that make me "Pro-Obama" since that could be their potential choice, or am I simply "Pro-Republican Democracy"?

No that makes you pro-democracy

Democracy is not a crime against humanity or God

If I tell someone that I support their right to decide what they want for dinner, does that make me "Pro-Obesity" since their choice could include a fast-food burger and fries?

No it makes you pro-food. Eating your choice of food is not a crime against God or humanity.

So, how can some justify the use of the term "Pro-Abortion" to describe those who are not in any way advocating abortion?

Because by advocating pro-choice you are by definition advocating abortion.

It's exactly the same if you applied the term pro-choice to democracy, I mean think about If you can have a choice between an autocracy or democracy and you say you are pro-choice, you are supporting peoples democratic right to choose, hence you are pro-democracy. In the other camp if you said you only support one or the other you are what you say you are also.
 
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SharonL

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If you ever heard someone talk about assisting in this kind of murder, it would send chills down your spin. I know a nurse that assisted in hundreds of these "pro-choice" murders. She tells of the time the tube was blocked and she unblocked it - what was blocking it - the forarm of the baby. We would not even be allowed to treat our animals in this manner.

She prayed for God to forgive her and quit on the spot.
 
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pureinheart

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IME those that say, "I wouldn't have an abortion, but I support the right to choose", is in fact condoning something that they would not do themselves. I would venture to say most who carry this line of thinking have assisted in an abortion at some point in their lives... taking a friend, family member, whatever. It screams justification.

At the tune of over 300,000 abortions every year in the US, that says there are at least 200,000 women out there every year having abortions and people assisting them...I say 200,000 as some women use abortion as a method of birth control.

This adds up to a lot of hurting people out there, some know it, some are in denial.
 
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pureinheart

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Pro-Choice is a word game created by child murderers to justify their own evil intent.

The FACT is that you are either for abortion or you are against it.

Yep, priddy much. If you google various abortion terms the propaganda put out there calls us "anti"-abortion giving a negative connotation.

"Pro-choice", such seemingly non abusive name, yet evil to the core by definition.
 
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SharonL

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We have brought the damnination upon ourselves by the killing of 50 million babies. These 50 million would have probably had at least 1 child - so we are talking about 90 million citizens - we have killed a whole generation - 90 million people paying taxes, savings, building houses, buying cars, etc. We have killed the ability to keep our society going and we are on a downhill slide headed quickly to the bottom.
 
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Larry Mondello

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Yep, priddy much. If you google various abortion terms the propaganda put out there calls us "anti"-abortion giving a negative connotation.

"Pro-choice", such seemingly non abusive name, yet evil to the core by definition.
Once worked in the news media.
My supervisor told us we had to use the terms "pro-choice" forces and "anti-abortion" activists when writing about this issue.
I pointed out that the former is a more favorable term toward the pro-abortionists while the latter makes the other look bad...
 
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"Exactly how does supporting the right of choice make one "Pro-Abortion"?"

Abortion is an act of violence against an unborn child who, in all other circumstances, is considered the parent's responsibility to love and care for until the age of majority, seeing as the parents themselves, in most situations, *put* that child in the position of total dependency. The child didn't force himself on anyone.

For that reason, anyone who supports murdering that child as a "choice" that should be protected is pro-abortion, because you have violated that fundamental rule of conscience which says that all human beings have a right to life. To support that "choice" is to support the act is to *be* for that act. There's no other way of thinking about it. It's like being "pro-choice" on slavery.
 
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SayaOtonashi

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The only problem is that the bible makes it clear that life starts at birth. I support abortion in mother life in danger, the baby, rape , incest. Mibeten. Mi mean away from with a non beten mean womb. Away from the womb. Meaning from birth.

Use of the Hebrew preposition min, or, from, followed by the noun beten, or, womb, combines the two to form one word, mibeten, or, from the womb. These three are used in Job 1:21; 3:11; 10:19. The preposition min is emphatic when used with verbs that express or infer separation or removal. When so used, the meaning of min becomes 'away from,' 'separated from,' or 'out from.' Significantly, the basic and primary lexical use of min is separation. Thus, when mibeten is used with the verbs 'come,' as in Job 1:21, 'come forth' (3:11) and 'carried' (10:19), this use clarifies 'from the womb' to mean separation from the womb, and thus life.

David's use of mibeten also indicates an understanding of life beginning at birth, here in Psalm 22:9,10:
"Yet You are He who did bring me forth from [out of] the womb [mibeten];
You did make me trust when upon my mother's breasts.
Upon You was I cast [out] from birth [the womb];
You have been my God [apart] from my mother's womb [mibeten]."
The first mibeten in v9 follows the verb of separation, 'bring forth.' The next in v10 does not follow a verb of separation, but is parallel in meaning with v9.

The 22nd Psalm is a very important Messianic Psalm, as it also contains the topic of the crucifixion of the Messiah. While David is desribing himself in the passage, he is also prophesying the thoughts and word of his greater Son, Jesus Christ (22:1, Matt. 27:46; Mark 15:34). Verses 9 and 10 speak of the birth of Christ--- of His removal from the womb of His mother. He is not dependent upon God in the womb, only outside of the womb. Nor is there trust inside of the womb, as there is no human life with which to do the trusting.

Psalm 58:3:
"The wicked are estranged [out] from the womb;
These who speak lies go astray from birth [literally, from the womb (mibeten)]."

This verse indicates there can be no wickedness until a person be separated from the womb. At the moment of birth, as soul life is imparted, the sin nature is activated. No one can be 'wicked' or 'speak lies' until they are born.

Isaiah uses mibeten and yatsar, which is 'to form' or 'to create.' In Gen. 2:7, yatsar was referring to God's immediate formation of Adam's biological life. Yet, after Gen.2 yatsar no longer points to His immediate creation of biological life, as all biological life since the Fall has been mediate, through procreation. Thus, when yatsar is used wtih mibeten, it describes the immediate creation of human life by God, after separation from the womb.
Isa. 44:2:
"Thus says the LORD who made you
And formed [yatsar, created] you [your human life] from [after leaving] the womb [mibeten], who will help you,
'Do not fear, O Jacob My servant;
And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen."
44:24:
"Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed [yatsar, created] you [human life] from [after leaving] the womb [mibeten],
'I, the LORD, am maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself,
And spreading the earth all alone."
The temporal uses of mibeten in the excerpts mark the point of physical birth, after which time human life continues: "the anerior limit of a continuous period." Min used temporally like this can be translated 'since' or 'after.' This dramatic poetic imagery is used by Isaiah to depict birth.
 
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Saya, for one, I'm not talking about the Bible.*

For another and much less important point, I would like to know your source(s). No, your own authority is not sufficient. Everything after the first paragraph looks like a copy and paste job, anyways. No offense, intended.

*but even if I was, there are so many scriptural counter-references that it renders your examples preposterous(eg:Exodus - in reference to hitting a pregnant woman so that she miscarries and I have studied the Hebrew for that, missy, as I saw a pro-abort using it, anad another example - John the Baptist reacting in the womb to the presence of Jesus *in the womb*...and if you do the math, Mary was *quite* early). Many of your examples are poetic and many of them are not even *defining* the start of human life, so you are taking them out of context. Yes, Soy, we know that birth is a momentous occasion. Momentous /= start-of-human-life.

?Why is it the pro-aborts who always seem to start with the discussion about the soul?
 
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SayaOtonashi

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On exdous is not talking about abortion. The baby came up live. Two the soul and the body are two different things. The word used in exodus it'snt the word for miscarriage in Hebrew.
Two John
For he [John the Baptist] will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled [empowered] with the Holy Spirit, while yet [in the future] in his mother’s womb [ek koilias, “separated from”].
 
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SayaOtonashi

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Hebrew and Greek are ever thing. Here are the Greek words used

The word BREPHOS is used for both the contents of the womb and a new born child. This indicates that the people at the time did not make a distinction between the two. We know that there is definitely life outside the womb, and if there was no distinction between before and after birth, then there is life inside the womb as well.


In the thinking of the Hebrew, a male child was a BREPHOS until his eighth day, when he was circumcised. From that point, he was a PAIDEIA, a trainable child, or a person in training. This viewpoint is confirmed by Luke, who used the same terminology in his gospel.

The word SKIRTAO indicates the movement of non-sentient things, and sentient beings under the total control of another entity. It is never used to denote the volitional choice and subsequent action of one that is under his own control!

It is used to note the movement of young cattle and sheep, as they leap for joy. It is used to show the activity of the Bacchae, women under demon possession, as they leap about under the control of their possessing entity. It is used to show the activity of Dionysus, one of the nephilim. It was used to describe the capricious activity of the wind. It describes the activity of a rioting mob. If ever there was something mindless, this would be it.

In other passages, it delineates the activity of the contents of the womb, as in the struggle of Jacob and Esau in the womb of Rebekah, Gen 25:20.

In Luke 6:23, our Lord uses this verb to describe believers in the millennium experiencing ecstatics under the power of the Spirit.

Its noun form is used as a synonym for Satyrs (nephilim), and the demon possessed attendants of Dionysus.

In the Septuagint, it is used three times to describe the same kind of activity.
o In Jer 50:11, it is used to describe the activity of demon-possessed humans.

o In Psalm 114:4,6 it describes the activity of inanimate objects like mountains and hills. They are compared to rams and lambs.

o In Mal 3:20 skirtao again indicates the activities of ecstatic believers in the millennium.
 
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windy35

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I am Pro-Life and don't believe in killing a baby unless it is threating your life, but that is my values and decision. As for other people I let them decide that issue for themselves, and I don't believe the government should make that decision for people. Everyone should make that decision based on their own values, so I am Pro-Choice. Keep government out of that decision, and don't make it a government issue.
 
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TomZzyzx

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windy35 said:
I am Pro-Life and don't believe in killing a baby unless it is threating your life, but that is my values and decision. As for other people I let them decide that issue for themselves, and I don't believe the government should make that decision for people. Everyone should make that decision based on their own values, so I am Pro-Choice. Keep government out of that decision, and don't make it a government issue.

First you say your Pro-Life then you say your Pro-Choice, I don't think you know where you stand.

Since the unborn is a human being shouldn't it have the same rights that all human beings have? Including the basic right to life.
 
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windy35

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First you say your Pro-Life then you say your Pro-Choice, I don't think you know where you stand.

Since the unborn is a human being shouldn't it have the same rights that all human beings have? Including the basic right to life.


I am Pro-Life, but I am aware that other people have a different opinion on this issue, so I don't want the government making one decision for everyone, and enforcing everyone to be Pro-Life. These decisions are not for the government to decide. It is for the individual to decide if abortion is ok or not. Also if a baby was threating my life, and I needed to save my life by having an abortion I would need to get an abortion even though I don't agree with abortion. I personally wouldn't have an abortion just for any old reason, but if people have a different set of ideas or ethics on this issue I want to leave that for them to decide when life begins. Since most people cannot come to an agreement on this issue as to when life begins the government shouldn't force everyone to believe only one certain way one way or another.
 
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