Prima face creation, or evolution?

OldWiseGuy · Apr 2, 2006

If man were examined in the light of science, he makes no sense whatsoever.

But in the light of the bible, as a creature created to do exactly as he does, man makes perfect sense.

And this isn't going to change anytime soon.

Mallon · Apr 2, 2006

oldwiseguy said:
If man were examined in the light of science, he makes no sense whatsoever.

What do you mean by this?

chaoschristian · Apr 2, 2006

oldwiseguy said:
If man were examined in the light of science, he makes no sense whatsoever.

But in the light of the bible, as a creature created to do exactly as he does, man makes perfect sense.

And this isn't going to change anytime soon.

If I recall correctly scripture indicates that we were created to be in relationship with God and to be the stewards of His Creation.

What does our physiology (assuming that's what your talking about) have to do with our divine purpose?

Deamiter · Apr 2, 2006

Hmm. I disagree. I think men make no sense in light of the Bible either. In my admittedly limited experience, it's the women who make sense whereas the men tend to babble on about football, cars and beer.

Late_Cretaceous · Apr 2, 2006

YOu seem to think that describing man in terms of the material (as opposed to the miraculous) somehow degrades us. Yet our bodies are made of molecules, and even our thoughts and emtions of electrical impulses in our brains. For many people saying stuff like that is tantamount to blasphemy. Anaxamander was banned from Athens for stating that the sun was a material object for similar reasons.

Other people, however, recognize that since God created the material world any thing that happens in it is devine. there is no separation between the two.

Dannager · Apr 2, 2006

oldwiseguy said:
If man were examined in the light of science, he makes no sense whatsoever.

But in the light of the bible, as a creature created to do exactly as he does, man makes perfect sense.

And this isn't going to change anytime soon.

Argument from personal sense? Is this what you're reduced to?

shernren · Apr 2, 2006

Well, to be frank, we haven't seen anything better from him in the GT thread.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 3, 2006

Mallon said:
What do you mean by this?

Man is an unfit organism on planet earth. His best efforts are destroying the earth as well as himself. And of this he is constant denial.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 3, 2006

chaoschristian said:
If I recall correctly scripture indicates that we were created to be in relationship with God and to be the stewards of His Creation.

What does our physiology (assuming that's what your talking about) have to do with our divine purpose?

God created most of mankind as 'vessels of dishonor', and they are acting accordingly. Just look around.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 3, 2006

Late_Cretaceous said:
YOu seem to think that describing man in terms of the material (as opposed to the miraculous) somehow degrades us. Yet our bodies are made of molecules, and even our thoughts and emtions of electrical impulses in our brains. For many people saying stuff like that is tantamount to blasphemy. Anaxamander was banned from Athens for stating that the sun was a material object for similar reasons.

Other people, however, recognize that since God created the material world any thing that happens in it is devine. there is no separation between the two.

What I mean is that as an organism on planet earth, we are a screwed up mess.

And from a biblical history point of view we are doing everything that God said we would do. And we are a screwed up mess in that regard as well.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 3, 2006

Dannager said:
Argument from personal sense? Is this what you're reduced to?

Not at all. For example when I drive on the interstate I am virtually the only one going the speed limit. Everyone else, christians included, are speeding. I know I'm different in this, but has that reduced me to something?

Assyrian · Apr 3, 2006

oldwiseguy said:
Prima face creation, or evolution?

If man were examined in the light of science, he makes no sense whatsoever.

But in the light of the bible, as a creature created to do exactly as he does, man makes perfect sense.

And this isn't going to change anytime soon.

It is not a question of creationism versus evolution but creation versus materialism. How God created man is not the issue, but that he did make us in his image using whatever means he saw fit. It is materialism that denies the spiritual dimension in man, the science of evolution simply makes no comment.

Assyrian

OldWiseGuy · Apr 3, 2006

shernren said:
Well, to be frank, we haven't seen anything better from him in the GT thread.

Thanks shernren,

That's the nicest thing I've heard you say.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 3, 2006

Assyrian said:
It is not a question of creationism versus evolution but creation versus materialism. How God created man is not the issue, but that he did make us in his image using whatever means he saw fit. It is materialism that denies the spiritual dimension in man, the science of evolution simply makes no comment.

Assyrian

What I'm saying is that no matter your point of view, man is screwed up.

Evolution has produced an unfit organism, or, God has created an organism that has become unfit. Samesame.

random_guy · Apr 3, 2006

oldwiseguy said:
What I'm saying is that no matter your point of view, man is screwed up.

Evolution has produced an unfit organism, or, God has created an organism that has become unfit. Samesame.

There's nothing in evolutionary theory that says it can't produce an unfit organism. It'll cull itself out eventually. It just happens that if it comes to that, only cockroaches will be left. I think the problem is you keep thinking that evolution has a purpose or is purposeless. Evolution is purposefull or purposeless as gravity. It's description of what we observe.

Assyrian · Apr 3, 2006

oldwiseguy said:
What I'm saying is that no matter your point of view, man is screwed up.

Not 'fearfully and wonderfully made'?

OldWiseGuy · Apr 3, 2006

random_guy said:
There's nothing in evolutionary theory that says it can't produce an unfit organism. It'll cull itself out eventually. It just happens that if it comes to that, only cockroaches will be left. I think the problem is you keep thinking that evolution has a purpose or is purposeless. Evolution is purposefull or purposeless as gravity. It's description of what we observe.

I agree somewhat. But I wonder if all those evolved folks would agree that they are indeed an unfit organism?

OldWiseGuy · Apr 3, 2006

Assyrian said:
Not 'fearfully and wonderfully made'?

Ironic isn't it? A creature so perfectly formed, that doesn't know enough to come in out of the rain. Tsk tsk.

Willtor · Apr 3, 2006

oldwiseguy said:
I agree somewhat. But I wonder if all those evolved folks would agree that they are indeed an unfit organism?

I must have missed it, but how exactly are we not fit?

Dannager · Apr 4, 2006

oldwiseguy said:
Not at all. For example when I drive on the interstate I am virtually the only one going the speed limit. Everyone else, christians included, are speeding. I know I'm different in this, but has that reduced me to something?

Not as long as you have something besides "This makes sense to me because!" to support it. For instance, your spedometer and the speed limit signs gracing the side of the road support your claim. However, if you have no spedometer and the road lacks speed limit signs, there's no way of telling who is traveling within the speed limit.

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Prima face creation, or evolution?

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Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

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