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Just that you think it is metaphorical for the church as a whole, but he seems to be talking about individuals.
Rev 3:14
To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
A pastor
So He wasn't speaking to the Church? Just the pastor?
Isn't a church made up of individuals? "If anyone"
Rev 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
But I don't see Jesus knocking on the hearts of unbelievers. That's what started this discussion.
I thinks it's metaphorical for standing outside of the church as a whole. And I don't think everybody in any church should be considered born again.
Another red herring logical fallacy.
What was I discussing to which you replied. This is what I wrote:
I was discussing Calvin, not Spurgeon. So by bringing Spurgeon into your reply you have committed a red herring logical fallacy.
Bye, Oz
"Prevenient grace' finds grace finds absolutely no Biblical support; yet "make-believers" does. :o
Hurriedly before Church this morning tried to mock "prevenient grace" and mocked myself, ie, I deserved it and lol at my ignorant self. Thank you. God never empowered anyone to accept nor reject salvation. I needed more humility anyway.
Skala, would you say some more about the wooing to TRY to entice sinner to do the right thing? You don't mean the Holy Spirit is trying to entice sinners to believe do you?
I'll jump in and say that no, that's not what he believes. But that's the way a lot of synergists use the word.
Thats not what I believe, but it's what synergists believe, it's what the Arminian doctrine of prevenient grace teaches.
That is why I set up the contrast between Arminian Prevenient Grace vs Calvinistic Irresistible grace.
The question I was responding to asked of Prevenient grace was merely resistible Irresistible Grace.
I said no, but the two are not alike at all. In the one, God is merely trying to woo sinners to do the right thing (prev grace), in the other, God is actually changing hearts and regenerating people so that they are willing to believe (Irresistible Grace)
Long story short: Prevenient Grace is not resistible Irresistible Grace
The two doctrines are nothing alike.
But in prevenient grace God actually brings some to belief and regenerates their hearts doesn't he?
No, not in the synergist construct.
If the prevenient grace of God doesn't bring some to belief and regeneration, then what do they think it does?
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