Preterists come back

[Wildfire]

Something I have noticed among the preterists, is a pattern that goes like this:

I once was a futurist, I studied Revelations, I began to shout, noone wanted to hear me, I became frustrated, I did not understand, I gave up on my first belief, and became a preterist.

Where is your patience?
Watchers?

Come back to your first love, which was grasping the understanding of prophecy.

We are almost there,
Wildfire

 

[davo]

Originally posted by Wildfire
Something I have noticed among the preterists, is a pattern that goes like this:

I once was a futurist, I studied Revelations, I began to shout, noone wanted to hear me, I became frustrated, I did not understand, I gave up on my first belief, and became a preterist.

Where is your patience?
Watchers?

Come back to your first love, which was grasping the understanding of prophecy.

We are almost there,
Wildfire

G'day Wildfire

That maybe your understanding, or how you're reading things -and that's ok, however the only thing I personally can agree with from what you've said is:

I once was a futurist,

Don't tell me you're missing us already!

davo

 

[Azrael]

I'm sorry if this sounds stupid but I'm still new to all this. What is a Preterist? I would appreciate it if someone would help me understand this.

Thanks,
Azrael

 

[jenlu]

Wildfire...

I was frustrated...not because it wasn't happening, but because it didn't make sense...it didn't add up...sure the failed predictions make you wonder, but that was the least of what brought me to where I am now...thanks for caring, but I'll never return to the wholy futurist viewpoint...and I'm on my way to a wholly preterist viewpoint...don't know for sure, if I'll ever get there, but I'm on my way...

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by davo

Don't tell me you're missing us already!

davo

That was my first thought Davo, when reading the thread title. I thought that Wildfire was going to give an impassioned plea for us Pret's to "come back" to the eschatology forum 'cause it's sooo boring there without us!

oh well, A guy can dream can't he?

 

[NumberOneSon]

I began to shout, noone wanted to hear me, I became frustrated, I did not understand, I gave up on my first belief, and became a preterist.

Where, in any of our testimonies, can you find concepts of "no one hearing us", or "not understanding", let alone "giving up"? I have seen nothing of the sort in the testimonies presented here, and it certainly was not in my testimony.

The real pattern is this: we studied the scripture, we realized that some of what we believed was not supported by the scriptures, we took a great deal of time, prayer, and study to make sure that those new beliefs were true, and then we "gave up" what we realized was wrong. Now that is the real pattern.

I have plenty of patience - that's why I did not accept preterism at the drop of a hat, on a whim and a prayer, and that's why I still struggle to make sure my understanding of prophecy is in line with God's Word. That's perseverance, my friend. My first love is Jesus, not prophecy.

Hey Azrael! A Batman fan, perhaps? Anyway, a preterist is someone that believes in preterism; preterism is the end-time view that all or almost all end-time prophecies in the Bible were fulfilled by 70AD. Some of the scripture evidence that we believe upholds this view can be found here. http://www.liberty.edu/courses/theo250/preterism.html

Please feel free to ask us any questions you want!

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Wildfire
Something I have noticed among the preterists, is a pattern that goes like this:

I once was a futurist, I studied Revelations, I began to shout, noone wanted to hear me, I became frustrated, I did not understand, I gave up on my first belief, and became a preterist.

Where is your patience?
Watchers?

Come back to your first love, which was grasping the understanding of prophecy.

We are almost there,
Wildfire

Hi Wildfire, Thanks for touching base with us, we miss you too!

If I may, I' have re-arranged your post to reflect, at least my version of your "timeline". Here goes:

Something I have noticed among the preterists, is a pattern that goes like this:

I once was a futurist, then I decided to actually study Revelation, and the rest of the Bible, I began to shout, the right people heard me, I became vindicated, I finally understood, I gave up on my unscriptural futurist belief, and became a preterist.

I came home to my first love, scripture. I now, finally, am grasping the true understanding of prophecy.

We are already there!
P70

 

[Mandy]

Originally posted by jenlu
Wildfire...

I was frustrated...not because it wasn't happening, but because it didn't make sense...it didn't add up...sure the failed predictions make you wonder, but that was the least of what brought me to where I am now...thanks for caring, but I'll never return to the wholy futurist viewpoint...and I'm on my way to a wholly preterist viewpoint...don't know for sure, if I'll ever get there, but I'm on my way...

What "failed prdictions" are you referring to?

 

[Wildfire]

jenlu, I found this link to be very helpful. I hope you take some time to read through it.
(2) is an excellent start.

http://www.ucg.org/search/search.cgi?query=revelation&IMAGE.x=60&IMAGE.y=36

Wildfire

 

[jenlu]

Mandy, I don't mean to sound crase(sp), but how long have you been into dispensationalism...go back about 10-20 years and you'll find failed prediction after failed prediction(Ever heard of Hal Lindsey)not to mention the past 2000 years...I would suggest studying up on how many times the call for the end has come and gone...the reason it doesn't work is because Revelations is not a book of predictions...it's a covenant lawsuit with Israel...but

like I said in my post, the failed predictions had little to do with why I am where I am...figuring out it was a covenant lawsuit was huge though...

 

[Mandy]

Why would you ever go by the predictions of men? Men are fallible, the word of God is not.

Covenant lawsuit?

 

[kern]

Of course, you can be a futurist without being a dispensationalist. As I understand it it would be compatible with the futurist viewpoint to believe that Christ's return will not be for millions or hundreds of millions of years (I'm not sure what the basis would be for this, but then I'm often not sure of the basis for disp hysteria either!)

-Chris

 

[jenlu]

Mandy, Do you believe He's coming soon? If so, how soon is soon...is it soon like you interpret the bible when it says "soon" or is it soon like it is normally meant...?

As for the sign's of the times...name a generation that has not had the sign's...

As for the covenant lawsuit question...yes, many times in the O.T. God used His prophets to bring a lawsuit against His people Israel...in which he had a covenant...By lawsuit since God and Israel had a covenant which is broken by Israel in the greatest way he takes away their "special" status and gives it to a nation (church) that will produce fruit...that's what Revelations/Apocalypse is describing very eloquently...though previously he always allowed them to stay in the fold...this time it was unrevocable that they rejected the Christ...Just as the parable Jesus told where the winepress of God's wrath was poured out on the people the master put in charge...The exact ones that killed His Son...

 

[NumberOneSon]

Right on Jenlu. This judgment for breaking the covenant is described in Deuteronomy 32 as the Song of Moses. And in Revelation 15:3 the Song of Moses is sung.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[armothe]

Failed predictions...

Let's just wait 50 years until most of the futurists on this board have passed. Then we'll see that their claims of Christ coming in their lifetimes have failed.

Prediction of the end of the world isn't a new thing people.

-A

 

[Mandy]

Originally posted by jenlu
Mandy, Do you believe He's coming soon? If so, how soon is soon...is it soon like you interpret the bible when it says "soon" or is it soon like it is normally meant...?

As for the sign's of the times...name a generation that has not had the sign's...

As for the covenant lawsuit question...yes, many times in the O.T. God used His prophets to bring a lawsuit against His people Israel...in which he had a covenant...By lawsuit since God and Israel had a covenant which is broken by Israel in the greatest way he takes away their "special" status and gives it to a nation (church) that will produce fruit...that's what Revelations/Apocalypse is describing very eloquently...though previously he always allowed them to stay in the fold...this time it was unrevocable that they rejected the Christ...Just as the parable Jesus told where the winepress of God's wrath was poured out on the people the master put in charge...The exact ones that killed His Son...

Yes I do believe Jesus is coming soon. How soon? I have no idea. It could be any moment or in 50 years. Where in Scripture does it state that God has taken away Israel's special status and gave it to the church? Ezekiel 38 and 39, shows that God isn't through with Israel, so does Romans, Revelation. As far as signs go, a major sign that has been seen is the return of the Jews to Israel and that they are in fact a nation again.

 

[NumberOneSon]

Prediction of the end of the world isn't a new thing people.

No doubt...

Cyprian (200-258), Bishop of Carthage - "The kingdom of God, beloved brethren, is beginning to be at hand" ; "That wars continue to prevail, that death and famine accumulate anxiety, that health is shuttered by raging diseases, that the human race is wasted by the desolation of pestilence, know that this was foretold; that evils should be multiplied in the last times, and that misfortunes should be varied; and that the day of judgment is drawing nigh" (Treatise 5, An Address to Demetrianus)

St. Martin of Tours (316-397) - "There is no doubt that the Antichrist has already been born. Firmly established already in his early years, he will, after reaching maturity, achieve supreme power." (Abanes p.119)

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Mandy


Yes I do believe Jesus is coming soon. How soon? I have no idea. It could be any moment or in 50 years.

Could it be in 100 years? 1000 years? 5000 years?
what makes you stop at 50 years? Clearly you believe "soon" can mean thousands of years right?

Originally posted by Mandy
Where in Scripture does it state that God has taken away Israel's special status and gave it to the church?

Great question! scripture says just that right here:

Mt 21:43
"Therefore I say to you,[Jews] the kingdom of God will be taken from you [Jews],and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

What Nation was Jesus going to Give the Kingdom to?
The Church of Course!


1Peter 2:9
But you [christians] are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Originally posted by Mandy
As far as signs go, a major sign that has been seen is the return of the Jews to Israel and that they are in fact a nation again.

Please show from scripture how the establishemnt of modern day, political Israel, is a "sign" of anything.

 

[jenlu]

Mandy,
That (God giving "special" status to the church) is what the entirety of the Bible is about...try to think of it as a story...the whole Bible...God is telling you how after he lost us to sin...won us back with the redemptive act of Jesus Christ...By the way, by no means do I believe Jews are not allowed to be molded back in...just not under special status and definitely not under their laws ie. rituals/temple/sacrifices, but only under the acceptance of Jesus Christ as King of Kings and Lord of Lords...THE Messiah

 

[NumberOneSon]

Where in Scripture does it state that God has taken away Israel's special status and gave it to the church?

Israel's "special status" depended on keeping the Covenant, which they did not do. They did not take care of the vineyard given to them(Luke 20:9). They continued to persecute and kill the messengers God sent to seek a harvest (v. 10-12). He then sent His Son, but the Israelites killed Him too (v.15). So in response, God destroyed the people of the Covenant and gave the vineyard (kingdom) to others - the Church, true Israel (v.16).

Mandy, the vineyard was taken from Israel and given to the Church. The parable clearly teaches this. As Paul said in Rom 9:6, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel". It's not circumcision of the flesh that counts one as a Jew and an heir of Abraham, but only of the circumcision of the heart.

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

In Christ,

Acts6:5