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Preterists come back
- Thread starter Wildfire
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Hang in there Mandy, you're on the right track. What happened in Israel 1967 was the mark of something, and here we are, twenty+ years later watching future events unfold. Currently war is breaking out like <wildfire> in the Jerusalem area, and soon we may bear witness to our first nuclear attack. Sad, incredibly, but what is worse than that is those who do not believe that the worst is yet to come -for a short time-
Watch and pray, that you mat be hid in the Lords day.
Pray always, that you may be counted worthy to escape all of these things.
Wildfire
Watch and pray, that you mat be hid in the Lords day.
Pray always, that you may be counted worthy to escape all of these things.
Wildfire
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so now it's 1967...used to 1948...what's gonna happen when 2007 passes or 2037 or 2057...You just sound exactly like a Pope in the sixth century so I'm ribbing you a bit...
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- Feb 24, 2002
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Uhhhh....I'd bet dollars to donuts that the folks from Hiroshima and Nagasaki would beg to differ.
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I always find it interesting that some seem to partially define their Christianity in terms of their eschatology.
I believe in Jesus Christ. He died for me. He rose for me. He intercedes for me.
My response is to live as a child of God, regardless of whether he is coming or came.
God bless,
Tinker
I believe in Jesus Christ. He died for me. He rose for me. He intercedes for me.
My response is to live as a child of God, regardless of whether he is coming or came.
God bless,
Tinker
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hey parasoui, wasn't that an atomic bomb? I was referring to the tension mounting between India & Pakistan.
Wildfire
Wildfire
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Forgive my ignorance wildfire,
could you explain the difference between an atomic bomb and a nuclear bomb?
Thanks
could you explain the difference between an atomic bomb and a nuclear bomb?
Thanks
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Well first, let me apologize for the hijack.
It seems from scripture that there is a relatively simple definition for a Christian. I am increasingly convinced that it is more or less limited to my previous post (he died, he lives, he intercedes, I respond accordingly.)
I grew up in a futurist church. I believe from your descriptions in another thread, davo, that I might be in the partial preterist camp, for similar reasons given by others. However, rather than delve into it, it became unimportant to me.
Both the CvE (creation/evol.) debates and PvF debates do very little for my understanding of how God wants me to live.
I am a Christian, and yet, my definition specifies none of the four camps mentioned in the preceding paragraph (i.e, C,E,P,F).
So it is interesting to me, that, for example, the board of administrators would actually take the time to convene and vote to exclude P's from the eschatology forum (it is a view of the "end times" after all.)
It is interesting to me that both camps of P and F expend so much energy doing what seems to amount to witnessing to lead others to the truth of either P or F. (Above, for example, wildfire says "Hang in there Mandy, you're on the right track." Nothing wrong with that. It just sounds like a response to an agnostic seeker in matters of salvation.)
Let me be clear about something. This particular thread was not a special case to me. It just happened to be the one I was reading when my knee-jerked.
Anyway, I guess I would like to see the fora dedicated to living the Christian life have more activity than those dedicated to open questions.
Apologies again for the hijack.
God bless,
Tinker
(we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.)
It seems from scripture that there is a relatively simple definition for a Christian. I am increasingly convinced that it is more or less limited to my previous post (he died, he lives, he intercedes, I respond accordingly.)
I grew up in a futurist church. I believe from your descriptions in another thread, davo, that I might be in the partial preterist camp, for similar reasons given by others. However, rather than delve into it, it became unimportant to me.
Both the CvE (creation/evol.) debates and PvF debates do very little for my understanding of how God wants me to live.
I am a Christian, and yet, my definition specifies none of the four camps mentioned in the preceding paragraph (i.e, C,E,P,F).
So it is interesting to me, that, for example, the board of administrators would actually take the time to convene and vote to exclude P's from the eschatology forum (it is a view of the "end times" after all.)
It is interesting to me that both camps of P and F expend so much energy doing what seems to amount to witnessing to lead others to the truth of either P or F. (Above, for example, wildfire says "Hang in there Mandy, you're on the right track." Nothing wrong with that. It just sounds like a response to an agnostic seeker in matters of salvation.)
Let me be clear about something. This particular thread was not a special case to me. It just happened to be the one I was reading when my knee-jerked.
Anyway, I guess I would like to see the fora dedicated to living the Christian life have more activity than those dedicated to open questions.
Apologies again for the hijack.
God bless,
Tinker
(we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.)
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I will never Go Back To The Futurist way of thinking. So many people think just because you are a preterist, it is all about Eschatology. FOr me, it was the opposite. Reading the Bible with first century eyes, helped me to finally understand the Bible. Everything in the Bible. Not just THe Eschatology part of it.
Its just so amazing. Once your eyes are opened. Eveything comes together.
I just for the life of me, don't understand now, how the futurist doctrine even got the gas to get going!! Its so bizzare now that I see things in a new light. I can't believe I use to believe that stuff. ( I am in no way putting anyone down for believing this way) I am just saying it is really Exciting and wonderful once you see the truth. (for me anyway)
Oh I just love being a Preterist
I love the Lord, I love reading the Bible now, I just feel like I have really been reborn!!
Blessings and thanks for all the wonderful posts.
Nancy
Its just so amazing. Once your eyes are opened. Eveything comes together.
I just for the life of me, don't understand now, how the futurist doctrine even got the gas to get going!! Its so bizzare now that I see things in a new light. I can't believe I use to believe that stuff. ( I am in no way putting anyone down for believing this way) I am just saying it is really Exciting and wonderful once you see the truth. (for me anyway)
Oh I just love being a Preterist
I love the Lord, I love reading the Bible now, I just feel like I have really been reborn!!
Blessings and thanks for all the wonderful posts.
Nancy
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Very insightful tinker grey...
There is no doubt people can get to caught up in eschatology that it veers them from living the life God called them to lead...but, and I think this is important, understanding God's word helps you to live the life God called you to lead...prophecy/eschatology are part of God's word, and understanding what He did and is doing for you through those scripture's are vital IMHO...(in my humble opinion)...when people on here are teaching/preaching their view of it, I believe, they believe they are doing it in terms of helping the other person's relationship with the Father...how productive it is is another story, but I've heard people say they had renewed vigor for God due to their change in eschatology mindset...I was one for sure...
There is no doubt people can get to caught up in eschatology that it veers them from living the life God called them to lead...but, and I think this is important, understanding God's word helps you to live the life God called you to lead...prophecy/eschatology are part of God's word, and understanding what He did and is doing for you through those scripture's are vital IMHO...(in my humble opinion)...when people on here are teaching/preaching their view of it, I believe, they believe they are doing it in terms of helping the other person's relationship with the Father...how productive it is is another story, but I've heard people say they had renewed vigor for God due to their change in eschatology mindset...I was one for sure...
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Originally posted by Back To The Future
I will never Go Back To The Futurist way of thinking. So many people think just because you are a preterist, it is all about Eschatology. FOr me, it was the opposite. Reading the Bible with first century eyes, helped me to finally understand the Bible. Everything in the Bible. Not just THe Eschatology part of it.
Its just so amazing. Once your eyes are opened. Eveything comes together.
I just for the life of me, don't understand now, how the futurist doctrine even got the gas to get going!! Its so bizzare now that I see things in a new light. I can't believe I use to believe that stuff. ( I am in no way putting anyone down for believing this way) I am just saying it is really Exciting and wonderful once you see the truth. (for me anyway)
Oh I just love being a Preterist
I love the Lord, I love reading the Bible now, I just feel like I have really been reborn!!
Blessings and thanks for all the wonderful posts.
Nancy
I agree. Preterism took my walk with the Lord to a whole new level. Also, I have heard that as much as 1/4 to 1/3 or more of the Bible concerns itself with eschatology, so it must be a matter of great importance.
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Mike Beidler
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- May 31, 2002
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Not to be nitpicky, but those cities suffered an ATOMIC attack, not a nuclear one. He-he.
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Hey Tinker, I like getting hijacked -gotta break the mould a bit -and I hear what you're saying and can concur with of what you said -it actually does come down to how we "live-out" our walk with God.
As for eschatology -for me it's a really interesting "fringe" [well maybe not so fringe] issue.
anyway, blessings mate!
davo
As for eschatology -for me it's a really interesting "fringe" [well maybe not so fringe] issue.
anyway, blessings mate!
davo
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Fission Bomb: -an atomic weapon which depends on nuclear fission. [how old are you guys? ]
davo
] davo
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jenlu and davo,
Blessings to you both. I don't think we are so far apart.
God bless you all.
Tinker
Blessings to you both. I don't think we are so far apart.
God bless you all.
Tinker
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Tinker,
For me, Eschatology hit to the very core of the integrity of scripture. It was in fact Preterism that brought me back to Christ, after losing my faith alltogether, in no small part due ot the fact that since I thought Futurism was the only interpratation, I was forced (at the time) to conclude that the Bible was false, because I couldn't abide by the twisting and stretching of the futurist "postponement" theories of the clear time indicators surrounding the 2nd coming. I began to believe Jesus was a false prophet.
When I discovered there was an interpratation that took the time indicators at face value, that affirmed Jesus did exactly what He said He would do, exactly WHEN he said He would do it, I felt like Stephen in Acts 7, "the Heavens opened and I saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father" I knew right away that The Bible was indeed true, and Jesus was indeed the only son of God.
From then on Eschatology and Soteriology became inextricably intertwined for me. I can not seperate the two as you seem to be able to do. Because, If we can't trust Jesus and the apostles on the timing, how can we trust them on the doctorines of Grace, or anything else for that matter? We can't. That is why we preterists place so much importance on eschatology. We have this funny notion that the integrity of the entirety scripture hinges on it.
Peace
For me, Eschatology hit to the very core of the integrity of scripture. It was in fact Preterism that brought me back to Christ, after losing my faith alltogether, in no small part due ot the fact that since I thought Futurism was the only interpratation, I was forced (at the time) to conclude that the Bible was false, because I couldn't abide by the twisting and stretching of the futurist "postponement" theories of the clear time indicators surrounding the 2nd coming. I began to believe Jesus was a false prophet.
When I discovered there was an interpratation that took the time indicators at face value, that affirmed Jesus did exactly what He said He would do, exactly WHEN he said He would do it, I felt like Stephen in Acts 7, "the Heavens opened and I saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father" I knew right away that The Bible was indeed true, and Jesus was indeed the only son of God.
From then on Eschatology and Soteriology became inextricably intertwined for me. I can not seperate the two as you seem to be able to do. Because, If we can't trust Jesus and the apostles on the timing, how can we trust them on the doctorines of Grace, or anything else for that matter? We can't. That is why we preterists place so much importance on eschatology. We have this funny notion that the integrity of the entirety scripture hinges on it.
Peace
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parousia70,
I appreciate your testimony. You remind me, in some ways, of an ex-smoker. No one is more adamantly against smokers than one who has recently given up smoking.
Also, your comments remind me of those who feel they cannot trust God if evolution is true.
(None of the above is intended as a criticism.)
I think we must recognize that there are those who take an opposite view and honestly feel that they can do so (hermeneutical gymnastics notwithstanding.)
For me the separation, in both Cve and PvF, from soteriology is in not attempting to guess what exactly God has/had in mind.
Genesis for me describes that God created the universe and took/takes particular interest in Man and has established a working relationship with Man. The details of how are unimportant (to me.)
Revelation (along with various and assundry related scriptures) are primarily for encouragement. I don't think God intends to tell exactly what will happen. It certainly seems clear to me that Revelation was to encourage the churches to whom John was writing. Bottom line: bad things will happen -- God wins in the end, hands down.
Regardless if we can pinpoint the meanings of prophecy, we can pinpoint that God knows whats happening and has it all under control. And of course, lotsa folks like to point out that most of what we call prophecy (along with the definition of the word) is exhortation.
Prophecy is a teaching tool WRT our relationship to God. What exactly happens is not particularly important (to me.)
Part of the reason I am convinced that discussing the End Times is so much endless geneologies is that in the story of Jesus from the Gospels we have NO indication that anyone predicted that Jesus was what God had in mind. We do have Paul and Matthew, in retrospect, telling us how Jesus fulfilled scripture. Remember the road to Emmaeus, even after the resurrection, Jesus had to explain how it was laid out in prophecy.
For both Genesis and Revelation, the bottom line for me is putting a different spin on God's intention on telling us anything he has told us. In the end when all is revealed, we may see that from God's eyes, both the evidence of our senses and the literal interpretation of various scriptures are completely true. I am a little skeptical of that last statement. I suspect that most of us if not all will have to ask forgiveness for putting God in a box that was way too small. But I do know, through faith, that I will be reconciled to whatever that truth is.
God bless,
Tinker
I appreciate your testimony. You remind me, in some ways, of an ex-smoker. No one is more adamantly against smokers than one who has recently given up smoking.
Also, your comments remind me of those who feel they cannot trust God if evolution is true.
(None of the above is intended as a criticism.)
I think we must recognize that there are those who take an opposite view and honestly feel that they can do so (hermeneutical gymnastics notwithstanding.)
For me the separation, in both Cve and PvF, from soteriology is in not attempting to guess what exactly God has/had in mind.
Genesis for me describes that God created the universe and took/takes particular interest in Man and has established a working relationship with Man. The details of how are unimportant (to me.)
Revelation (along with various and assundry related scriptures) are primarily for encouragement. I don't think God intends to tell exactly what will happen. It certainly seems clear to me that Revelation was to encourage the churches to whom John was writing. Bottom line: bad things will happen -- God wins in the end, hands down.
Regardless if we can pinpoint the meanings of prophecy, we can pinpoint that God knows whats happening and has it all under control. And of course, lotsa folks like to point out that most of what we call prophecy (along with the definition of the word) is exhortation.
Prophecy is a teaching tool WRT our relationship to God. What exactly happens is not particularly important (to me.)
Part of the reason I am convinced that discussing the End Times is so much endless geneologies is that in the story of Jesus from the Gospels we have NO indication that anyone predicted that Jesus was what God had in mind. We do have Paul and Matthew, in retrospect, telling us how Jesus fulfilled scripture. Remember the road to Emmaeus, even after the resurrection, Jesus had to explain how it was laid out in prophecy.
For both Genesis and Revelation, the bottom line for me is putting a different spin on God's intention on telling us anything he has told us. In the end when all is revealed, we may see that from God's eyes, both the evidence of our senses and the literal interpretation of various scriptures are completely true. I am a little skeptical of that last statement. I suspect that most of us if not all will have to ask forgiveness for putting God in a box that was way too small. But I do know, through faith, that I will be reconciled to whatever that truth is.
God bless,
Tinker
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