Preterism's Straw Men: Dispensationlism -- a Scare Word.

[dfw69]

I'm pretty much convinced that Dispensational Futurists don't read the New Testament at all, except maybe for one chapter of Matthew and the Revelation. And apparently all of you have ripped Hebrews out if you Bibles altogether.

Not true...Hebrew is still in my bible...

Just as an aside, how long is that "generation" from the founding of the state of Israel going to have to get? St. Hal said a generation was 40 years, and thus The Rapture would happen by 1988. Now we're pushing 70 years, so it's already ridiculously long. Some DF told me a while back that it's 100 years, but I'm betting when 2048 rolls around your fellow Lindseyites will punch it out to 150 years or more, what do you bet?

Yeah.. where is the promise of his coming to rapture the church....since it has not happen yet...surely it.must be a bogus lie. .

Jipsah I'm glad those prophecies of the rapture that was supposed to happen in 1988 were written ...I was a young man who knew nothing about eschatology or the rapture....then a pamphlet had me up all night worried I would miss the rapture...lol...

since then I made an effort to get to know God better ....and here I am...

Were you doped in 1988 too and that is why you are so angry?...did you vow to never be doped again?...

 

[Job8]

What does a third temple have to do with Christ being the temple? Nothing! It makes no logical sense. It makes no logical sense for a Christian to believe in a third temple needed to make animal sacrifices when Christ plainly states he sacrificed himself once and for all for all, but you can't see that. You can only see your straw men, applying verses that you can't explain in the OT as your evidence for future events.

Try addressing the facts, and not the straw men.

Well if we are going to address facts, the fact is:
1. Human logic does not necessarily enter into God's plans and purposes, since His thoughts are not our thoughts.
2. The prophecy of Ezekiel does describe a Temple and Temple sacrifices which do not correspond to any past Temple and must be reconciled with the rest of the Bible.
3. Not only does Ezekiel describe a Temple but he aslo describes redeemed and restored Israel under Christ. This has never happened and is therefore yet future.
4. Preterism cannot be supported by either human history or Church history.
5. Preterism tries to avoid its bankruptcy by making awkward facts into symbols and allegories.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

What is most alarming about this accusation is that the people making it know it is false.

Which explains why they're here in the first place.

 

[precepts]

Well if we are going to address facts, the fact is:
1. Human logic does not necessarily enter into God's plans and purposes, since His thoughts are not our thoughts.

How do figure that? Logic and understanding is needed since God speaks in parables. But I'm not surprise at your response.

2. The prophecy of Ezekiel does describe a Temple and Temple sacrifices which do not correspond to any past Temple and must be reconciled with the rest of the Bible.

That is your opinion. And if it wasn't a private one, it would have been a common doctrine of a 3rd temple needing to be rebuilt in the doctrine of mainstream Christianity. But no one else makes that distinction but persons such as yourself. Orthodox Christianity never has for 2000 yrs. Think about that.

I'm not even going to go in to the circumstances surrounding Ezekiel's vision surrounding plans for a temple at the time after Solomon's temple laid in ruins. It's just to silly to ignore the context for little technical details that some claim can't be verified ever taking place because of the lack of the historical facts. It's like those who claim King David never existed because there's no proof of his existence, when the city of Shalem is a historical fact. It's just plain, petty stuff.

3. Not only does Ezekiel describe a Temple but he aslo describes redeemed and restored Israel under Christ. This has never happened and is therefore yet future.

Once again I say this is your opinion. The prince described in Ezekiel's vision is Joshua the son of Josedech the high priest. He, being a priest, was crowned King and high priest. And get this, he's called "the Branch." But I am sure you already know that. Just another gnat for you to strain on.

4. Preterism cannot be supported by either human history or Church history.

Once again, it's your opinion. I have all the facts that can prove my case in any court of law using history and scripture. Church history, on the other hand, I believe, isn't God's history; and to honest, I think it's Antichrist history, Satan's ministers of light creating havoc in the so-called bodies of Christ.

My understanding of the facts isn't the Preterism theories you've heard before, but I am classed as a Preterist because of some of the views I propose. I read and understood prophecies long before I even knew what a Preterist or what Preterism was. But you're the ones that take scriptures out of context.

Two thousand yrs mean a lot more to you than simply 2000yrs, and your math doesn't add up when calculated. But everything we propose does.

5. Preterism tries to avoid its bankruptcy by making awkward facts into symbols and allegories.

Again with the vain accusations. Case in point?

 

[BABerean2]

Well if we are going to address facts, the fact is:
1. Human logic does not necessarily enter into God's plans and purposes, since His thoughts are not our thoughts.
2. The prophecy of Ezekiel does describe a Temple and Temple sacrifices which do not correspond to any past Temple and must be reconciled with the rest of the Bible.
3. Not only does Ezekiel describe a Temple but he aslo describes redeemed and restored Israel under Christ. This has never happened and is therefore yet future.
4. Preterism cannot be supported by either human history or Church history.
5. Preterism tries to avoid its bankruptcy by making awkward facts into symbols and allegories.

Do you think it is strange that an unfulfilled major event from the Old Testament would not be mentioned by Christ or any of the New Testament writers?

Since I do not believe that Christ returned in 70 AD or that the book of Revelation is past, save your "preterist" comments.

Will a restored and redeemed Israel occur in the New Heavens and the New Earth?

 

[Straightshot]

Will a restored and redeemed Israel occur in the New Heavens and the New Earth?


My comment

1000 years before .... then the Lord's eternal kingdom will come after [Revelation 21]

This is the sequence of Revelation 20; 21

 

[Job8]

Do you think it is strange that an unfulfilled major event from the Old Testament would not be mentioned by Christ or any of the New Testament writers?

Please take careful note of the following Scriptures:

MENTION BY CHRIST
Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mt 19:27,28)
This is yet future, since the "regeneration" (redemption and restoration of Israel) is yet to come, the 12 tribes are yet to be established, the 12 thrones are yet to be set up in the Millennium, and for the future. This is when Ezekiel's Millennial Temple will be set up and when Christ will personally rule over a redeemed Israel.

MENTION BY THE APOSTLES
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
After Christ's resurrection, the apostles hoped for the restoration of Israel under Messiah. However, the Lord had other plans (the Church Age) therefore that is yet future.

Will a restored and redeemed Israel occur in the New Heavens and the New Earth?

Certainly. It will be an eternal kingdom on earth (Ezek 37:25-28). Note the bolded words:
25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

 

[Straightshot]

"Do you think it is strange that an unfulfilled major event from the Old Testament would not be mentioned by Christ or any of the New Testament writers?"


This is wild

Do you know who the Author of all scripture is BaB?

It does not matter where, or when He reveals things .... cover to cover

 

[BABerean2]

Please take careful note of the following Scriptures:

MENTION BY CHRIST
Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mt 19:27,28)
This is yet future, since the "regeneration" (redemption and restoration of Israel) is yet to come, the 12 tribes are yet to be established, the 12 thrones are yet to be set up in the Millennium, and for the future. This is when Ezekiel's Millennial Temple will be set up and when Christ will personally rule over a redeemed Israel.

MENTION BY THE APOSTLES
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
After Christ's resurrection, the apostles hoped for the restoration of Israel under Messiah. However, the Lord had other plans (the Church Age) therefore that is yet future.


Certainly. It will be an eternal kingdom on earth (Ezek 37:25-28). Note the bolded words:
25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Could the verse from Matthew above be a reference to the judgment in the verses below?



1Co_6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? (Are these the wicked angels, that followed Satan?)

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

.

 

[BABerean2]

"Do you think it is strange that an unfulfilled major event from the Old Testament would not be mentioned by Christ or any of the New Testament writers?"


This is wild

Do you know who the Author of all scripture is BaB?

It does not matter where, or when He reveals things .... cover to cover

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

.

 

[Job8]

Could the verse from Matthew above be a reference to the judgment in the verses below?
1Co_6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? (Are these the wicked angels, that followed Satan?)
2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

NOT AT ALL. CHRIST SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL, NOT ONLY IN MATTHEW BUT IN THE OTHER GOSPELS, NOT EVIL ANGELS.

 

[Straightshot]

"John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."


The Author of all scripture

 

[Straightshot]

"Could the verse from Matthew above be a reference to the judgment in the verses below?"


No .... the Lord's true ecclesia will rule with Him during His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth .... and mortal Israelites will be present in the kingdom .... all 12 tribes represented [Ezekiel 40-48]

The same will also judge the fallen angels

 

[BABerean2]

NOT AT ALL. CHRIST SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL, NOT ONLY IN MATTHEW BUT IN THE OTHER GOSPELS, NOT EVIL ANGELS.

Do you think any of the dead who are judged at the John chapter 5 resurrection will be from the 12 tribes of Israel?



Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

ANYTHING BUT the twelve tribes of Israel.. we know.

 

[Straightshot]

"Do you think any of the dead who are judged at the John chapter 5 resurrection will be from the 12 tribes of Israel?"


Of course .... both Jew and Gentile are evaluated alike .... believers to eternal life, and unbelievers to eternal damnation

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Then there are the 144,000 Israelites from the twelve tribes mentioned right there in plain English in Rev 7, but we understand that it must mean ANYTHING BUT what it does say.

 

[Straightshot]

Then there are the 144,000 Israelites from the twelve tribes mentioned right there in plain English in Rev 7, but we understand that it must mean ANYTHING BUT what it does say


A Gentile replacement theologist would say "anything but" ..... and many claim the position for themselves

Ask them which tribe they are from

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Yeah really.. that's a good one..

 

[dfw69]

Some believe Elijah will say what tribe a man is from When he comes