Preterism-phony as a Ford Corvette

[Timtofly]

They asked about the end of the age, not the end of the world. He answered that question fully, and prepared them by giving them signs of the end of that age.

Yet He was already there and the Cross was the end of that age. The disciples were the firstfruits of the church, body of Chist for the next age. Christ would not return until this age was over. The disciples may have thought Christ was coming back to end that age, but that is not what Jesus answered. Jesus corrected their thoughts as they had not even processed the Cross at that point. Going back to an erroneous mindset is wrong. That is why Jesus gave us the OD and the Book of Revelation in correction of that erroneous mind set.

Jesus did not give us the OD to reinforce an erroneous view. It was so the church could read and understand in the aftermath of the Jewish rebellion that would destroy Jerusalem and leave it desolate for hundreds of years. Preterist have the wrong age and world in view.

 

[robycop3]

Your post is false.

It does not begin with "This post is true".

Of course, that statement would also be false.

In addition, all of your past posts are false.

None of them begins with "This post is true".

Know what "Bah Humbug!" means?
You can't begin to support your stuff in this thread.

 

[robycop3]

Yes, He has. And it was visible to those at the time.

No, your imaginary event didn't happen. And it doesn't match either Jesus' own prophecy of His return, or the Revelation account of the events surrounding it. When He returns, it'll be PERMANENTLY. His saints will be with Him. There are NOT three comings of Jesus in Scripture. And only ONE of two has occurred.

 

[robycop3]

If you understood that Luke 21:20-24 is a parallel passage to Matthew 24:15-22 then maybe you would understand. How do you interpret Luke 21:20-24?
It's mostly about the "days of vengeance" Jesus prophesied against the Jews of that generation. It was NOT about the great trib,which'll be worldwide, with Jesus' return immediately following it amid a great worldwide cosmic disturbance.

I'm not some KJV only person in case that's what you were thinking. I try to quote scripture in whatever translation that I think the person I'm talking to uses or will accept as trustworthy so that they can see that what I'm telling them is taught even in their own preferred translation. So, I'll try to remember that you prefer the NKJV in the future and I'll quote from that instead when I quote scripture to you.

Feel free to use whatever version(s) you jolly well please. If we all liked only the same one version, there'd be no others!

The twisting of scripture has to do with the fact that we're talking about the temple of God here. You still have not come up with any explanation for how a future physical temple built by unbelieving Jews could possibly be something that Paul would call "the temple of God". That's the problem I'm having with your interpretation. Do you understand what I'm saying or do you need me to spell it out even more?

Paul said the man of sin would sit in it. One man can't sit inside another!

Right.

The spiritual temple of God is very literal and real, Mate. Your line of reasoning here is ridiculous. Very often scripture contains a mix of literal and figurative text. That is undeniable. So, we have to discern which is which.

You said reason and reality is against my view? Then prove it. So far you haven't come close to doing so. You have not done ANYTHING to show that some useless and meaningless temple built by unbelieving Jews could possibly be something that Paul would call the temple of God.

Paul said the man of sin would sit in it. And I believe you know Paul was not one who wrote symbolically much at all, if any, especially to gentiles such as the Thessalonians were.
Scripture points to ONE MAN as the beast/antichrist, & Revelation indicates he will have a miracle-working false prophet as his deputy. That's found from daniel to Rev. 20 where this man & his deputy will be cast alive into hell. And, since the AOD was not done in the old temple, there will be a new one that it'll be done in. And all that is LITERAL.

 

[Hammster]

Yet He was already there and the Cross was the end of that age. The disciples were the firstfruits of the church, body of Chist for the next age. Christ would not return until this age was over. The disciples may have thought Christ was coming back to end that age, but that is not what Jesus answered. Jesus corrected their thoughts as they had not even processed the Cross at that point. Going back to an erroneous mindset is wrong. That is why Jesus gave us the OD and the Book of Revelation in correction of that erroneous mind set.

Jesus did not give us the OD to reinforce an erroneous view. It was so the church could read and understand in the aftermath of the Jewish rebellion that would destroy Jerusalem and leave it desolate for hundreds of years. Preterist have the wrong age and world in view.

The end of the age is the end of the old covenant. The proof that it was really over was the destruction of the temple. It was judgement for apostate Israel.


When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
— Hebrews 8:13

 

[Hammster]

No, your imaginary event didn't happen. And it doesn't match either Jesus' own prophecy of His return, or the Revelation account of the events surrounding it. When He returns, it'll be PERMANENTLY. His saints will be with Him. There are NOT three comings of Jesus in Scripture. And only ONE of two has occurred.

It’s not imaginary. It happened. And I’m not talking about His return. I’m talking about Him coming on the clouds. I’m not sure why you keep making that category error.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The change, the final harvest, and the angels are all indications of the end of Adam's 6000 years, the end of the lost tribes scattered across all nations, and the end of the body of Christ being gathered.

Make that "7,000 years" (a full "week"), and you'll have it about right. And make that "the THIRD final harvest", and you'll have that right also. The second coming of Christ on the clouds is ancient history, but the third coming is yet future to us.

 

[Timtofly]

Scripture points to ONE MAN as the beast/antichrist, & Revelation indicates he will have a miracle-working false prophet as his deputy. That's found from daniel to Rev. 20 where this man & his deputy will be cast alive into hell. And, since the AOD was not done in the old temple, there will be a new one that it'll be done in. And all that is LITERAL.

Hell is not the Lake of Fire.

"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

1000 years later:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Those two beings were cast into the LOF. Hell will also be cast into the LOF.

The beast and the FP literally skip sheol, and go immediately to the second death. The FP may have already served time and physically died once, ending up in sheol, who knows? The beast was never human, so cannot physically die like a human. Either way they get to the LOF 1000 years ahead of Satan.

Physical death and spending time in sheol is the first death. Sheol being emptied and cast into the LOF is the second death. If any can come out of the LOF, that would be a second resurrection. The second resurrection is only after the second death.

These events are literal actual events and could not have happened in the first century. The LOF and Death with a capital "D" do not come into reality until the 4th Seal is opened. The Seals only are opened in a short time span prior to the Second Coming. The 6th Seal is the final day of Redemption. Once the 7th Seal is opened the Lamb's book of life will be opened and names will start to be removed. Death and the LOF is the permanent second death once a name is removed from the Lamb's book of life. The goats of Matthew 25 are the first on the list of being removed.

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:"

This is not the GWT. This is during the final harvest, the 6 Trumpets, known as the GT. These gosts are alive on earth, not resurrected from Sheol.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

"All the nations" is not a condition of sheol. Nations are not an attribute of sheol. Nations are what is going on currently on the earth, among the living. These living goats are not sentenced to sheol. This is their last and final judgment. This did not happen in the first century. Neither is this the GWT. These people are dead, but not physically dead until after they are tossed into the LOF. After the 7th Seal, Death and the LOF are the final destinations. Yet even Death itself, after the 1000 years is cast into the LOF. Death is the punishment of taking the mark and being removed from the Lamb's book of life. Death is the punishment of being removed from the Millennium kingdom for directly disobeying under the iron rod 1000 year reign of Christ. Death is more permanent and eternal than sheol. Thus a distinction, after the Seals are opened for the Lamb's book of life. We see Death and sheol riding together during the 4th Seal.

"And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

Only God knows how close and when the last 3 Seals are opened, bringing a final end to the body of Christ, and the total redemption into a son of God. After that point, the only blessing is escaping the second death. Many will have life on earth in incorruptible physical bodies. They will not have the full restoration as being a redeemed son of God. The sheep living on earth after the Second Coming are in this category. They will be the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom on earth. The sheep will be the ones living out the promises of Isaiah 65.

 

[Timtofly]

The end of the age is the end of the old covenant. The proof that it was really over was the destruction of the temple. It was judgement for apostate Israel.


When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
— Hebrews 8:13

I agree. That was still not the point of the OD and the Book of Revelation.

 

[Hammster]

I agree. That was still not the point of the OD and the Book of Revelation.

That was exactly the point. “This generation” meant that generation.

 

[Timtofly]

Make that "7,000 years" (a full "week"), and you'll have it about right. And make that "the THIRD final harvest", and you'll have that right also. The second coming of Christ on the clouds is ancient history, but the third coming is yet future to us.

Adam's punishment cannot last 7000 years. God did not say, "Remember the Sabbath Day. 7 Days shalt thou labor, but the 8th Day is the Day of rest."

If you accept it has been 6000 years since Adam's disobedience, what is a 7th Day for?

Can you prove it has been 7000 years since Adam disobeyed?

 

[Timtofly]

That was exactly the point. “This generation” meant that generation.

You do not agree, because you yourself claim it was about the Second Coming.

Jesus said "this generation" after the fig tree reference. How did Israel become a nation in 70AD?

 

[Hammster]

You do not agree, because you yourself claim it was about the Second Coming.

Jesus said "this generation" after the fig tree reference. How did Israel become a nation in 70AD?

Yeah, you might want to explain that one.

 

[jgr]

Know what "Bah Humbug!" means?
You can't begin to support your stuff in this thread.

False.

Does not begin with "This post is true".

 

[robycop3]

It’s not imaginary. It happened. And I’m not talking about His return. I’m talking about Him coming on the clouds. I’m not sure why you keep making that category error.

He will come on the clouds when He returns. Your scenario is imagination.

 

[robycop3]

Hell is not the Lake of Fire.

"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

1000 years later:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Those two beings were cast into the LOF. Hell will also be cast into the LOF.

The beast and the FP literally skip sheol, and go immediately to the second death. The FP may have already served time and physically died once, ending up in sheol, who knows? The beast was never human, so cannot physically die like a human. Either way they get to the LOF 1000 years ahead of Satan.

Physical death and spending time in sheol is the first death. Sheol being emptied and cast into the LOF is the second death. If any can come out of the LOF, that would be a second resurrection. The second resurrection is only after the second death.

These events are literal actual events and could not have happened in the first century. The LOF and Death with a capital "D" do not come into reality until the 4th Seal is opened. The Seals only are opened in a short time span prior to the Second Coming. The 6th Seal is the final day of Redemption. Once the 7th Seal is opened the Lamb's book of life will be opened and names will start to be removed. Death and the LOF is the permanent second death once a name is removed from the Lamb's book of life. The goats of Matthew 25 are the first on the list of being removed.

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:"

This is not the GWT. This is during the final harvest, the 6 Trumpets, known as the GT. These gosts are alive on earth, not resurrected from Sheol.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

"All the nations" is not a condition of sheol. Nations are not an attribute of sheol. Nations are what is going on currently on the earth, among the living. These living goats are not sentenced to sheol. This is their last and final judgment. This did not happen in the first century. Neither is this the GWT. These people are dead, but not physically dead until after they are tossed into the LOF. After the 7th Seal, Death and the LOF are the final destinations. Yet even Death itself, after the 1000 years is cast into the LOF. Death is the punishment of taking the mark and being removed from the Lamb's book of life. Death is the punishment of being removed from the Millennium kingdom for directly disobeying under the iron rod 1000 year reign of Christ. Death is more permanent and eternal than sheol. Thus a distinction, after the Seals are opened for the Lamb's book of life. We see Death and sheol riding together during the 4th Seal.

"And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

Only God knows how close and when the last 3 Seals are opened, bringing a final end to the body of Christ, and the total redemption into a son of God. After that point, the only blessing is escaping the second death. Many will have life on earth in incorruptible physical bodies. They will not have the full restoration as being a redeemed son of God. The sheep living on earth after the Second Coming are in this category. They will be the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom on earth. The sheep will be the ones living out the promises of Isaiah 65.

Yes, hell iS the LOF.
Calling sheol/hades "hell" is a goof in the KJV.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Can you prove it has been 7000 years since Adam disobeyed?

No, that isn't my point. We are coming up on the end of 6,000 years of fallen man's history on this planet; which will be 2,000 years since the 4th millennium of Revelation 20 had ended. The END of the 7th millennium of fallen mankind's history on this planet will mark the culmination point, when God gives a new beginning at the final, third resurrection event. The number eight represents new beginnings in scripture - not the number seven. Seven represents completion - at the end of it.

We are about to enter a sabbatical period of human history during the 7th millennium when the world will go fallow in a state of imposed "rest". However God wants to accomplish that is His business, but we know it will be for the benefit of the continued spread of His kingdom in this world. He already promised that, with His examples of continued growth of the mustard seed, Daniel's rock, and the leaven of the kingdom. God always accomplishes His intended purposes.

 

[3 Resurrections]

How did Israel become a nation in 70AD?

Israel as the revived Scarlet Beast regained its independent kingdom nation status in AD 66 at the launching of the Zealot rebellion against Rome. They began minting their own currency as a sovereign nation at that time, dating their coins "year 1", "year 2", etc. This Scarlet Beast was "about to arise" in John's days as he was writing Revelation somewhere between late AD 59 and early AD 60 - just before the AD 60 Laodicean earthquake.

 

[robycop3]

Israel as the revived Scarlet Beast regained its independent kingdom nation status in AD 66 at the launching of the Zealot rebellion against Rome. They began minting their own currency as a sovereign nation at that time, dating their coins "year 1", "year 2", etc. This Scarlet Beast was "about to arise" in John's days as he was writing Revelation somewhere between late AD 59 and early AD 60 - just before the AD 60 Laodicean earthquake.

Judah was not truly indy as it is now, and the scarlet beast won't arise until the antichrist forms his empire. And the Rev was given during Domitian's reign. (AD 81-96)

 

[robycop3]

No, that isn't my point. We are coming up on the end of 6,000 years of fallen man's history on this planet; which will be 2,000 years since the 4th millennium of Revelation 20 had ended. The END of the 7th millennium of fallen mankind's history on this planet will mark the culmination point, when God gives a new beginning at the final, third resurrection event. The number eight represents new beginnings in scripture - not the number seven. Seven represents completion - at the end of it.

We are about to enter a sabbatical period of human history during the 7th millennium when the world will go fallow in a state of imposed "rest". However God wants to accomplish that is His business, but we know it will be for the benefit of the continued spread of His kingdom in this world. He already promised that, with His examples of continued growth of the mustard seed, Daniel's rock, and the leaven of the kingdom. God always accomplishes His intended purposes.

Actually, we don't know how long man's history is. We don't really know when Noah's flood was, etc. And the "millenium" will be Jesus' reign on earth for 1K years after His return. There'll be both resurrected saints and mortals on earth then. Proof of mortals? Satan won't be able to trick any immortal saint into following him, and the mortals who do will be devoured by fire from heaven.