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President's phone call transcript

childeye 2

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our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you’re surrounding yourself with some of the same people.

The above statement proves that Trump trusts Putin over American intelligence. Why is no one talking about this evidence?
 
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LostMarbels

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[/QUOTE]

Ok. This was a private, classified conversation that was never going to see the light of day, right?

So where is the overt threat that Trump was going to stop aid, or arms deals?

"I would like you to do us a favor" Is this it? This is the threat?
 
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essentialsaltes

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The above statement proves that Trump trusts Putin over American intelligence. Why is no one talking about this evidence?

The President declared it openly on a global stage in Helsinki, and none of his defenders here cared all that much. Though even Fox News harrumphed some.
 
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A_Thinker

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So where is the overt threat that Trump was going to stop aid, or arms deals?

"I would like you to do us a favor" Is this it? This is the threat?
He had ALREADY ... put the desired aid on hold ...
 
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essentialsaltes

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US Congress: We're going to give Ukraine some aid!
Ukrainians: Yay!
Trump: Don't release the money!
US government: Why?
Trump: ...
Ukrainians: Why is there no aid coming?
Trump: ...
US government: <shrugs>
Trump to Ukrainians: We've been very very good to you.
Ukrainians: Yes, oh Munificent One!
Trump to Ukrainians: But I need you to do me a favor.
Ukrainians: We stayed in your hotel in New York and consumed many Taco Bowls, Your Billiontude.
Trump to Ukrainians: Not that. You must reopen your closed investigation into the Bidens.
Ukrainians: It shall be done, even as you say, Great One!
Trump to US government: OK, let them have the money.
 
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childeye 2

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The President declared it openly on a global stage in Helsinki, and none of his defenders here cared all that much. Though even Fox News harrumphed some.
Yes I know. But I can't help but marvel at it. If Trump supporters don't care if Trump serves Putin, they don't care that they support Putin, our geopolitical adversary, and an organized crime type of government power. The effective brainwashing is just frankly hard to believe.
 
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LostMarbels

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Trump had stopped the aid about one week before the call. No reason has been given.

Ok let's be honest here... this is Trump. It is odd for him to do something for no reason at all? On a whim, because he feels it is right? That is unbecoming of how he operates? I don't see it. Not saying that is always correct, but it isn't unusual.

Trump had stated he suspended aid because out of fears of corruption. But is believed it was suspended to get political information against a political opponent. Seems like more spin to me, where what Trump states is the reason is changed with a differnt reasoning other than expressed by Trump himself.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Trump had stated he suspended aid because out of fears of corruption.

That's what he said on Monday the 23rd of September.

By Tuesday the 24th, he had changed his tune.

“My complaint has always been, and I’d withhold again, and I’ll continue to withhold until such time as Europe and other nations contribute to Ukraine, because they’re not doing it,”

Seems like more spin to me

Yes, it certainly does. Trump gave no explanation at the time he made the decision. But now he has offered two explanations in as many days looking for a way to quell the inquiries.

where what Trump states is the reason is changed with a differnt reasoning other than expressed by Trump himself.

Yes, Trump has expressed a different reasoning other than the one expressed by Trump.
 
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LostMarbels

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Ok so he doesn't want to be the only country paying to defend europe from russia? That also isn't new.

I'm still looking for where Trump told Ukraine: no investigation into my political rival, no weapons; as is alleged.
 
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LostMarbels

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Trump had stopped the aid about one week before the call. No reason has been given.

Oh this is interesting. You state Trump gave no reasoning for stopping this aid.

“My complaint has always been, and I’d withhold again, and I’ll continue to withhold until such time as Europe and other nations contribute to Ukraine, because they’re not doing it,”

But as soon as I make a comment about Trump's reasoning, you magically have a 'reason' waiting on the sidelines. How is that possible? You literally have to have your stuff together right and ready to argue any point made to the contrary of your views.

You: Oh, LM... he didn't give any reason for stopping. That is suspicious.

Me: *Provides a reason Trump himself stated*

You: Oh no, he said he stopped because of this. Showing you're wrong.

Me: What?! I thought you just said he didn't give a reason. But so far we have already discussed 2. Are we a bit confused here? Or just dishonest?
 
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childeye 2

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It's necessary to know what Trump means by "corruption" when he says it. In this case he expresses the need to dispel any claim that Russia interfered in the election. Let me ask you this. Do you think Trump ever did actually believe that Obama wasn't born in America or was it propaganda?
 
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dogs4thewin

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Spot on, spot on. They will never find anything because there is nothing to find, they hate President Trump just to hate and the hatred is personal.
You would think after his term is over halfway done and they have tried and tried and tried they would if anything give up and try to pour those resources into getting him VOTED out of office.
 
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LostMarbels

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It's necessary to know what Trump means by "corruption" when he says it.

You might try listening to something he actualy says. Might help.

In this case he expresses the need to dispel any claim that Russia interfered in the election.

Where? Where does he say that?
 
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childeye 2

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You might try listening to something he actualy says. Might help.
I would suggest that we all do.


Where? Where does he say that?
I assume that you realize that if Russia never hacked the DNC server, then everything Mueller said happened and everything our intelligence agencies said happened concerning Russian interference, never actually happened.

This is where Trump expresses the need to dispel any claim that Russia interfered in the election:

our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you’re surrounding yourself with some of the same people.
 
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LostMarbels

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I assume that you realize that if Russia never hacked the DNC server, then everything Mueller said happened and everything our intelligence agencies said happened concerning Russian interference, never actually happened.
 
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Belk

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If it is any consolation, I am on the opposite side of the fence from you and I am feeling scared and confused as well. While I do think the impeachment is the correct way forward it adds a whole lot of uncertainty and conflict into our future that I do not enjoy and wish we did not have to navigate.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Oh this is interesting. You state Trump gave no reasoning for stopping this aid.

I should have said 'had', but my later remark makes things clearer:

"Trump gave no explanation at the time he made the decision. But now he has offered two explanations in as many days looking for a way to quell the inquiries."
 
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LostMarbels

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I have been staring at this response for at least an hour an 15 minutes. Edited it at least 60 times. A Response is very hard to internalise. Or put into words. So I am just going to thank you for the kind words and tell you I empathise with you in all sincerity. I will just say I think our apprehensions stem from differnt causes, but both are valid.
 
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