Prenup??

[Lucy23]

Hello, I’m new here so hopefully I’m doing this right? My boyfriend and I have been in a serious relationship for over 3years. A couple months ago he brought up possibly wanting a prenup. I couldn’t help but feel betrayed & taken a back. We’ve always had strong,loving, trusting relationship with no issues & centered by God. His reasoning is because if there was a possibility we “didn’t work out” he had “a lot to loose” I told him what do you think God would think of this and he said: “well he would want me to have faith in him” I also feel like I’ve done something wrong, or I didn’t do enough for him to feel like he needed this? I don’t have a lot of money saved but I do have a lot of love to give. We haven’t talked much about it lately because every time we do I get upset. In the end, I said a prenup isn’t an option for me at all because why would I marry you if there’s a potential for divorce and divorce isn’t an option for me either. He understood, but doesn’t seem to want to budge on wanting the prenup & says it’s just “insurance” and that it won’t matter years later down the road. I don’t want to sign it because how it makes me feel and I don’t think I’ll truly be happy in my marriage if I did that. Advice on how to handle this? :/

 

[Endeavourer]

I'm not in favor of them for exactly the reasons you are feeling. Your reaction is normal.

Many states differentiate between premarital and marital assets so his reasons for a prenup are not immediately clear to me other than to pre-negotiate your divorce, which would apparently mean he does not intend a 50/50 split of the marital assets. Of course this varies by state, so find out what the law is in your state.

Of course you don't have the same negotiating leverage as he has. Right now anything you negotiate for will feel to you like you are trying to take something from him that was his, so your integrity will cause you to cave for an unfair deal.

If it were me I'd tell him that laws were made to provide calculations for divorce so you feel best to leave it up to them; you have no way to know now what you will need if he ever divorces you. You don't know what type of house you'll have to be making payments on if he divorces you, or how many children you'll need to pay babysitting for while you go back to work, etc, etc, so any agreement you might make now would be completely worthless and would most likely only hurt you and your children in the future. Because you haven't had any children yet, you have no way to understand what type of child support budget you would need. You both would be negotiating from a position of ignorance, although it sounds like he has some means, so he would likely be able to afford an attorney to crank things his way. If the prenup is too restrictive it could be the tool he uses to take the children away from you because it could leave you with not enough income in your household to live.

It is too bad he waited 3 years to spring this on you.

 

[Endeavourer]

says it’s just “insurance” and that it won’t matter years later down the road.

It won't matter to who.... lol ... unless he's planning for the prenup to expire in a few years?

Still, I wouldn't put myself through dedicating my life, heart and body to be someone's wife if you were in it for real and he was in a trial marriage with a bug-out insurance policy.

 

[mama2one]

has he asked you to marry him?

if so and you said yes, would advise you to go to the premarital counselling

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

after 3 years he should have put a ring on your finger by now... he does not seem like he believes in the relationship enough to risk it. You are at a crossroads and can't leave this unresolved.

 

[Albion]

This whole idea of prenups is perplexing, and there is something to be said both for and against it on a purely rational level. However, I feel that the deciding factor may be how much wealth is at risk. If he is some tycoon, has inherited millions, or something like that, it may be forgivable. But if he is of ordinary means, I would consider the demand to be somewhat faithless towards you, especially if he has been hesitant about entering into marriage in addition.

 

[Endeavourer]

after 3 years he should have put a ring on your finger by now... he does not seem like he believes in the relationship enough to risk it. You are at a crossroads and can't leave this unresolved.

I completely agree with this. It takes no more than 2 years to know someone well enough to assess whether they are a suitable match.

Dating is an interview for marriage. Prolonging the relationship more than 2 years without a decision is a troubling indicator if you are looking for marriage. From what you have written, it's possible you may be a "buyer" but he may still be "renting".

Here is an article with some helpful concepts to consider. They also apply to relationships that are intimate but stop short of living together:
Married After Living Together - Letter #1 (Marriage Builders®,...

Is it possible that he is springing the pre-nup on you now as an excuse to disenchant you from the relationship so a break up is easier for him?

 

[eleos1954]

Hello, I’m new here so hopefully I’m doing this right? My boyfriend and I have been in a serious relationship for over 3years. A couple months ago he brought up possibly wanting a prenup. I couldn’t help but feel betrayed & taken a back. We’ve always had strong,loving, trusting relationship with no issues & centered by God. His reasoning is because if there was a possibility we “didn’t work out” he had “a lot to loose” I told him what do you think God would think of this and he said: “well he would want me to have faith in him” I also feel like I’ve done something wrong, or I didn’t do enough for him to feel like he needed this? I don’t have a lot of money saved but I do have a lot of love to give. We haven’t talked much about it lately because every time we do I get upset. In the end, I said a prenup isn’t an option for me at all because why would I marry you if there’s a potential for divorce and divorce isn’t an option for me either. He understood, but doesn’t seem to want to budge on wanting the prenup & says it’s just “insurance” and that it won’t matter years later down the road. I don’t want to sign it because how it makes me feel and I don’t think I’ll truly be happy in my marriage if I did that. Advice on how to handle this? :/

Bottom line is he don't trust you. Maybe he's unable to trust anyone.

Marriage is largely based on trust ... trust is based on love.

We trust in the Lord because He loves us.

The love described in 1 Corinthians 13 should obviate the need for prenuptial agreements. Biblical love is a conscious decision that we are going to do what is best for others the way God always does what is best for us. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres” (1 Corinthians 13:4–7). As Christians, we should be characterized by this kind of love, especially within a Christian marriage. If love “endures through every circumstance” (NLT), then prenuptial agreements are unneeded

God Bless.

 

[Andrew77]

Hello, I’m new here so hopefully I’m doing this right? My boyfriend and I have been in a serious relationship for over 3years. A couple months ago he brought up possibly wanting a prenup. I couldn’t help but feel betrayed & taken a back. We’ve always had strong,loving, trusting relationship with no issues & centered by God. His reasoning is because if there was a possibility we “didn’t work out” he had “a lot to loose” I told him what do you think God would think of this and he said: “well he would want me to have faith in him” I also feel like I’ve done something wrong, or I didn’t do enough for him to feel like he needed this? I don’t have a lot of money saved but I do have a lot of love to give. We haven’t talked much about it lately because every time we do I get upset. In the end, I said a prenup isn’t an option for me at all because why would I marry you if there’s a potential for divorce and divorce isn’t an option for me either. He understood, but doesn’t seem to want to budge on wanting the prenup & says it’s just “insurance” and that it won’t matter years later down the road. I don’t want to sign it because how it makes me feel and I don’t think I’ll truly be happy in my marriage if I did that. Advice on how to handle this? :/

Hmmmmm......

My views on prenups have changed somewhat. I used to be of the opinion that even the idea of it, was a game changer. Or game ender. Pretty much for the same reason you outlined. If the other person is saying they want to plan for divorce, before I have even married them, then this is a bad idea.

However....

What I have learned is that we live in a really crazy screwed up world. And for some reason, whatever the reason is... when people have significant amounts of money, people go crazy. I have heard of the most insane stuff, about people who were all lovey dovey, and then they get married, and one finds out the other has 2.5 Million dollars, and all of a sudden they want the mansion on the beach, and the corvette, and the lake house, and to go on carnival cruises every other month.... and when the other says no, then all of a sudden the spouse turns into a holy terror.

I've also heard stories about where the in-laws suddenly go insane. They find out son-in-law has millions of dollars, and suddenly they show up in a camper on the front lawn, and demand to be taken care of.

For whatever reason, when people have significant amounts of wealth, the full moon comes out, and all the crazy blood sucking wear-wolfs start howling.

So.....

In specific cases, I would accept a prenup. Those cases should be limited to when one person is significantly wealthy, and the other person is not. The prenup should have protections for any children, so that you still get a reasonable amount of money to take care of them, if he bails. And the prenup should be time-limited. Meaning it doesn't last forever. After 15 years, the prenup should terminate. Crazy doesn't hide for 20 years. It usually shows it's ugly crazy head, pretty fast after marriage.

By the way....

Just as side note for everyone... this is one of the reasons I'm in favor of getting married young. If two people get married before they have anything, then they never worry about losing stuff in a theoretical divorce. The couple grows their wealth and life, together.

Instead.... they gathering up a bunch of stuff separately, and then are worried the other person is only marrying them for their stuff, and then trying to figure out how to keep their stuff if the relationship fails.

Marry young, and you don't have this problem.

So what would I do if I were you?

First determine if you meet my requirements above. Is the guy filthy rich? Is there justification for this?

My guess is, he isn't rich. At least not rich enough to warrant a prenup.

So I would tell him.... no. We're not doing that. We're either getting married without it, or we're not getting married. And I would give him no longer than 1 single week, to give you an answer, and then I'd move on.

After 3 years with this guy, if he can't make a call on this... can I be honest with you? He sucked down 3 years of your life, and now this is his hang up? Then he is garbage. Sorry to be brutal, but that's how I see it. This guy dragged you along for 3 years, and now because his stuff matters more to him than you, he's going to drag his feet for a prenup... this guy needs tossed into a garbage can.

Unless he's worth several million, if this guy does not pop a question and offer you a ring in the next month..... listen... YOU DUMP HIS BUTT. You ditch this guy. This guy will string you along for another 3 years if you let him. You pin this guy to the wall, and say "what is up buddy? You been dragging me around for 3 years, and now I want an answer. We doing this thing called life, or not?"

You made the statement that you thought you did something wrong. Because you didn't make him feel safe? No, you gave this loser 3 years. But you most certainly did do something wrong. You let him have 3 years. That's what you did wrong. You should have had a heart-to-heart moment 2 years ago, and find out if this idiot was going to follow through, or just keep dragging you around.

The longest you should ever be dating someone without plans to get married, is 1 year. In 12 months, if the guy isn't willing to do anything but keep stringing you behind him... you dump him and find someone else.

.... sigh......

I know I've been tough. But can I be honest with you? The daughters of G-d are a precious thing. Your life is worth more than what I've seen in this post. Three years, and now he's playing this game with you? My darling daughter, do you know how many Christian men are dying to find the rubies of great value? They are on this forum. They are on the dating sites. They are looking for someone.

And I know you don't think of yourself like the precious daughter of G-d almighty, but no matter how flawed you might be, you are worth more than how this guy is treating you.

So I'll say it again. You get this guy to tell you what is up. Either he makes good, or you dump him. If you dump this guy, cry your tears for a relationship gone bad, take a few months to be alone, and then you find yourself a real man that doesn't put stuff and things, as more important than a girl that gave him 3 years of her life.

Be brave. G-d is with you. And next time, date for 12 months, no longer.

 

[ValleyGal]

I could sort of turn this around, and say that if you have every intent on making the marriage work, then there is no reason not to sign. Typically, a prenup is only there to protect what he has going into the marriage, not what you spend your lives earning and accumulating. And because the divorce rate is just as high in the church as it is in the secular world, I can see his point. He has worked hard to earn what he has, and he is willing to share it with you.... but he is also saying that IF the marriage caves, both of you could become resentful and bitter enough to want revenge, and thereby become unfair in your pursuit to destroy each other during divorce. I've seen this all too many times.

As well, here is an example. My dad has a second wife, who has a daughter from a previous marriage. If he did not have a prenup protecting his assets, all his life work would end up with her and then go to her daughter, rather than to the biological daughter it should go to, and other direct descendants. Sometimes there are reasons for prenups. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Have a conversation and talk about why he wants one, without letting emotions get in the way.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Prenups are for people who don't trust who they are with. They try to disguise it as "I''m just being safe", but they obviously have some trust issue or worry too much. God says not to live in fear and worry. If he needs a prenup then he's not ready to marry. I tell people find someone else.

Now with that said if you feel like you should do it, you can always agree to the terms of it. Maybe say you want one too so if he leaves you, your protected. This way it's equal to both of you. I can understand him to some degree since America has a high divorce rate. None the less I would never ask someone to sign one.

^As said in the above post, talk with him and see why he wants one.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I'm in support of prenups for both parties, even if both are poor. You never know what can happen, and it's good to protect yourself in case things get odd later.

I understand many find them offensive though. I wouldn't take it personally against you, though.

 

[Lucy23]

has he asked you to marry him?

if so and you said yes, would advise you to go to the premarital counselling offered by the Catholic Church

We’ve

has he asked you to marry him?

if so and you said yes, would advise you to go to the premarital counselling offered by the Catholic Church

he has not, because he wants / (hopes)for me to agree to a prenup first. I refuse it over and over again. He says I’m acting on feelings & not being rational. I do wonder what the church would think of this...

 

[Lucy23]

Prenups are for people who don't trust who they are with. They try to disguise it as "I''m just being safe", but they obviously have some trust issue or worry too much. God says not to live in fear and worry. If he needs a prenup then he's not ready to marry. I tell people find someone else.

Now with that said if you feel like you should do it, you can always agree to the terms of it. Maybe say you want one too so if he leaves you, your protected. This way it's equal to both of you. I can understand him to some degree since America has a high divorce rate. None the less I would never ask someone to sign one.

^As said in the above post, talk with him and see why he wants one.

Thank you for your honest response. He doesn’t think we would get divorced but says “just in case” (which is contradicting)I know he comes from an ugly divorced family. I explain we are not like his parents at all in every way possible. He’s also expressed I’m not responsible with my money because I’ve let my dad borrow a large amount to help get him out of financial problems. I have told him to not live in fear and trust in God.

 

[Lucy23]

I could sort of turn this around, and say that if you have every intent on making the marriage work, then there is no reason not to sign. Typically, a prenup is only there to protect what he has going into the marriage, not what you spend your lives earning and accumulating. And because the divorce rate is just as high in the church as it is in the secular world, I can see his point. He has worked hard to earn what he has, and he is willing to share it with you.... but he is also saying that IF the marriage caves, both of you could become resentful and bitter enough to want revenge, and thereby become unfair in your pursuit to destroy each other during divorce. I've seen this all too many times.

As well, here is an example. My dad has a second wife, who has a daughter from a previous marriage. If he did not have a prenup protecting his assets, all his life work would end up with her and then go to her daughter, rather than to the biological daughter it should go to, and other direct descendants. Sometimes there are reasons for prenups. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Have a conversation and talk about why he wants one, without letting emotions get in the way.

Thank you for taking the time to share your advice, I really appreciate it because I have no one to talk to on this manner. I know this is his perspective. How you’re writing is how he thinks, and I know it’s genuine. I guess it’s just so hard for me to accept because I don’t see divorce as an option and I’m not sure how to pray for this. More patience? More understanding? I can’t help but feel like I’m worthless and not good enough...it’s embarrassing for me. But I will try to not let emotions get in the way.

 

[Lucy23]

I completely agree with this. It takes no more than 2 years to know someone well enough to assess whether they are a suitable match.

Dating is an interview for marriage. Prolonging the relationship more than 2 years without a decision is a troubling indicator if you are looking for marriage. From what you

Is it possible that he is springing the pre-nup on you now as an excuse to disenchant you from the relationship so a break up is easier for him?

I completely agree with this. It takes no more than 2 years to know someone well enough to assess whether they are a suitable match.

Dating is an interview for marriage. Prolonging the relationship more than 2 years without a decision is a troubling indicator if you are looking for marriage. From what you have written, it's possible you may be a "buyer" but he may still be "renting".

Here is an article with some helpful concepts to consider. They also apply to relationships that are intimate but stop short of living together:
Married After Living Together - Letter #1 (Marriage Builders®,...

Is it possible that he is springing the pre-nup on you now as an excuse to disenchant you from the relationship so a break up is easier for him?

Thank you for your response, advice, and the article. I really appreciate it. I don’t think he’s trying to break up at all because he does get visibly upset if he thinks that’s MY intentions. He honestly doesn’t see an issue with the prenup in anyway shape or form and says I’m not being reasonable & that I’m only acting on emotion. I’m not sure how to approach this anymore because I refuse to sign for the reasons I’ve said. I tell him I think God would want him to not worry, trust me, and not to have fear.

 

[Lucy23]

This whole idea of prenups is perplexing, and there is something to be said both for and against it on a purely rational level. However, I feel that the deciding factor may be how much wealth is at risk. If he is some tycoon, has inherited millions, or something like that, it may be forgivable. But if he is of ordinary means, I would consider the demand to be somewhat faithless towards you, especially if he has been hesitant about entering into marriage in addition.

He is of ordinary means, I just don’t know what else to say to him

Bottom line is he don't trust you. Maybe he's unable to trust anyone.

Marriage is largely based on trust ... trust is based on love.

We trust in the Lord because He loves us.

The love described in 1 Corinthians 13 should obviate the need for prenuptial agreements. Biblical love is a conscious decision that we are going to do what is best for others the way God always does what is best for us. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres” (1 Corinthians 13:4–7). As Christians, we should be characterized by this kind of love, especially within a Christian marriage. If love “endures through every circumstance” (NLT), then prenuptial agreements are unneeded

God Bless.

thank you, this was the response I needed to hear. I hope everything works out.. :/

 

[Lucy23]

Hmmmmm......

My views on prenups have changed somewhat. I used to be of the opinion that even the idea of it, was a game changer. Or game ender. Pretty much for the same reason you outlined. If the other person is saying they want to plan for divorce, before I have even married them, then this is a bad idea.

However....

What I have learned is that we live in a really crazy screwed up world. And for some reason, whatever the reason is... when people have significant amounts of money, people go crazy. I have heard of the most insane stuff, about people who were all lovey dovey, and then they get married, and one finds out the other has 2.5 Million dollars, and all of a sudden they want the mansion on the beach, and the corvette, and the lake house, and to go on carnival cruises every other month.... and when the other says no, then all of a sudden the spouse turns into a holy terror.

I've also heard stories about where the in-laws suddenly go insane. They find out son-in-law has millions of dollars, and suddenly they show up in a camper on the front lawn, and demand to be taken care of.

For whatever reason, when people have significant amounts of wealth, the full moon comes out, and all the crazy blood sucking wear-wolfs start howling.

So.....

In specific cases, I would accept a prenup. Those cases should be limited to when one person is significantly wealthy, and the other person is not. The prenup should have protections for any children, so that you still get a reasonable amount of money to take care of them, if he bails. And the prenup should be time-limited. Meaning it doesn't last forever. After 15 years, the prenup should terminate. Crazy doesn't hide for 20 years. It usually shows it's ugly crazy head, pretty fast after marriage.

By the way....

Just as side note for everyone... this is one of the reasons I'm in favor of getting married young. If two people get married before they have anything, then they never worry about losing stuff in a theoretical divorce. The couple grows their wealth and life, together.

Instead.... they gathering up a bunch of stuff separately, and then are worried the other person is only marrying them for their stuff, and then trying to figure out how to keep their stuff if the relationship fails.

Marry young, and you don't have this problem.

So what would I do if I were you?

First determine if you meet my requirements above. Is the guy filthy rich? Is there justification for this?

My guess is, he isn't rich. At least not rich enough to warrant a prenup.

So I would tell him.... no. We're not doing that. We're either getting married without it, or we're not getting married. And I would give him no longer than 1 single week, to give you an answer, and then I'd move on.

After 3 years with this guy, if he can't make a call on this... can I be honest with you? He sucked down 3 years of your life, and now this is his hang up? Then he is garbage. Sorry to be brutal, but that's how I see it. This guy dragged you along for 3 years, and now because his stuff matters more to him than you, he's going to drag his feet for a prenup... this guy needs tossed into a garbage can.

Unless he's worth several million, if this guy does not pop a question and offer you a ring in the next month..... listen... YOU DUMP HIS BUTT. You ditch this guy. This guy will string you along for another 3 years if you let him. You pin this guy to the wall, and say "what is up buddy? You been dragging me around for 3 years, and now I want an answer. We doing this thing called life, or not?"

You made the statement that you thought you did something wrong. Because you didn't make him feel safe? No, you gave this loser 3 years. But you most certainly did do something wrong. You let him have 3 years. That's what you did wrong. You should have had a heart-to-heart moment 2 years ago, and find out if this idiot was going to follow through, or just keep dragging you around.

The longest you should ever be dating someone without plans to get married, is 1 year. In 12 months, if the guy isn't willing to do anything but keep stringing you behind him... you dump him and find someone else.

.... sigh......

I know I've been tough. But can I be honest with you? The daughters of G-d are a precious thing. Your life is worth more than what I've seen in this post. Three years, and now he's playing this game with you? My darling daughter, do you know how many Christian men are dying to find the rubies of great value? They are on this forum. They are on the dating sites. They are looking for someone.

And I know you don't think of yourself like the precious daughter of G-d almighty, but no matter how flawed you might be, you are worth more than how this guy is treating you.

So I'll say it again. You get this guy to tell you what is up. Either he makes good, or you dump him. If you dump this guy, cry your tears for a relationship gone bad, take a few months to be alone, and then you find yourself a real man that doesn't put stuff and things, as more important than a girl that gave him 3 years of her life.

Be brave. G-d is with you. And next time, date for 12 months, no longer.

Thank you so much, your words helped me a lot. We are talking tomorrow, wish me luck. I know I can’t keep putting it off. he’s actually a really good guy so it does suck ...but I agree with you & ive felt like this for a while.

 

[mama2one]

We are talking tomorrow, wish me luck. I know I can’t keep putting it off.

did you look up rules for your state?
pretty sure it's community property so anything earned, acquired during marriage belongs to both

 

[mama2one]

one of my sisters worked at a bank and when someone's husband died, the wife could not get any money right away to pay bills because everything was in husbands name

my sister felt terrible as the woman kept asking and needed money but due to rules, bank couldn't give to her right away

so wouldn't have everything in his name only

some married people have house only in husband's name
we have joint tenancy with survivor getting house