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The Gospel is a call to discipleship as well.So if we live just by faith with out doing any of that stuff, our faith is nullified?
I would consider that axiomatic.
Perhaps it was in response to the notion Calvin made up predestination when the apostle Paul and apostle Peter taught it. Thus providing the Scriptures so everyone can see it in context.
We have some inner goodness before God calls us which enables us to respond?Remembering we can only have faith because God created us to begin with, gave us the ability, gave us our souls, then, possibly this way (involving the 'cooperation' as some have put it):
Acts 10 NIV (instead of only verses 4, 34-35, it's best to have the entire account)
Washed in the Water and the Blood...? Being born again...? But, ways to test them or that, even in yourself...? IDK about that...?Is there anyway to test if you are truly saved?
Is the other guy who knows what will happen Bill Belichick?To you, you are watching it unfold. To the other guy.. he knows what is going to happen and who gets hurt, who gets sacked, who runs for yardage and who scores touch downs....
Then argue against the text. I presented no quotes from theologians.So your point is? Don't Calvinists like everyone else then go on to interpret what both Paul and Jesus said and arrive at different interpretations thus accounting for variance in doctrine. That should be quite obvious.
Webster's definition of predestination:That's because that is how "predestination" is defined, the very reason I keep asking for definitions to the term from those who argue. The dictionary is all I have to go by until someone convinces me there is another official definition that is not as confusing as it seems to be here. Confusing as in the true definition doesn't seem to match up at all to what you seem to be claiming it is. So, that's why you need to tell me your definition of predestination and show me why that is a fact with orderly scripture.
predestination is ridiculous, and would make us a bunch of no free will robots...
Wow. That lines up perfectly with your statement I referred to just before that. We are - according to you - a bunch of robots.My definition leads me to believe God controls our thoughts and the out come of all that we do.
God choosing is synonymous with election. God chose Abraham and not Lot. Jesus chose His disciples and one was a devil and son of perdition to fulfill the Scriptures.but God only moves in some hearts to believe that, so its still Gods choice not ours if we will be elect or not.
Not so. When God replaces our heart of stone with a heart of flesh we freely choose Him.it's got nothing to do with us.
Not accurate. As I explained above when God calls a heart that has been changed we come to His unmerited Grace in faith believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and repent unto salvation. That is choosing. It’s entering a covenant.so we dont choose to believe at all.
Frankly look at it at it this way we are all condemned. We know from the Scriptures not all will be saved.some hearts God never moves so those hearts never had a chance...
A very crude way to look at it. I would first study the sovereignty of God over His own creation before drawing conclusions. What are your thoughts on this passage?like someone said tough luck to those ones.
There are many passages which I can share however, emotion is not the measure we should look to.what if you dont have that testifying? and how do you define what is that is? can't that just be your feelings playing tricks?
James, Paul and Peter would call that dead faith. It is not a living saving faith.what if you believe in Jesus and what He did, so rationally you give ascent to that truth, but you dont have any testifying of the Spirit to your spirit...(whatever mystical or airy fairy concept that may be referring to??) then are you elect? can you know for sure?
I believe the Scriptures provided are as concrete as concrete can get.needs to be way more concrete for most of us.
How often are you speaking with God and learning more about Him?why try and follow if there is no real assurance that you are elect or not til you die.
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You can PM me anytime you like if you ever want to talk...It's just at times and a lot later I have been doubting about if I'm truly a believer.
It is a humble approach for us to admit we don’t have God all figured out. He revealed what He did to us of Him and we are accountable on that. Not trying to figure out how what is revealed fits our human understanding.Ok. To me, I am not able to have the....already-knowing to know whether or not God has already decided for every individual (as distinct from certain individuals He choses ahead for a purpose) ahead of time.
That's instead "mystery" (see post #127 on previous page).
And it's even entirely beyond our knowing I think, in that we cannot know all of the mind of God, but only revealed things (alone):
Isaiah 55 NIV (instead of only the key verses 6-10, it's best of all to read this passage from verse 1 fully through (short chapter), because it's exactly about salvation itself even). His thoughts are not simply different, but so much higher that we cannot encompass (omnisciently know) all of His thoughts.
Took this is what I was responding to:Do you really understand Reformed doctrine? My theology professor in seminary taught from the Reformed view that does not base God's election on any foreknowledge of our decision. Election is based upon God's sovereignty alone. He chooses whom to elect and whom is passed over. Although I'm not a fan of this website, it gives a succinct and balanced explanation:
Who are the elect of God?
I must have misunderstood where you were coming from. It seemed to me that you were against the idea of predestination.
We are - according to you - a bunch of robots.
Don't you believe that believer's names were written in the Lamb's book of life before the foundation of the world?Yes you have, and are very confused..
No, according to predestination as I understood it.
predestine
verb
pre·des·tine | \ (ˌ)prē-ˈde-stən
\
predestined; predestining; predestines
Definition of predestine
transitive verb
: to destine, decree, determine, appoint, or settle beforehand especially : predestinate sense 1.
I use the root word "predestine" definition, because predestination comes out of that and before the so called scholars got a hold of it, predestination would mean just as i said it did.
Meaning our turnout is already determined, just as programming a robot, whatever they do is determined by someone else. Pretty simple to see how I draw the conclusion.
As I quoted you in this post, *you* said I claimed you were no more than robots, but no, I claimed just the opposite, that that was ridiculous, and in affect, predestinationists in my view are the ones claiming that they are robots by saying what they do is predestined, so don't put that on me. I never made the claim, just the observation that is what you all were basically claiming.
So yes, I'd conclude you are definitely confused, and I hope that helps.
Actually your conclusion is wrong. Nothing in the definition you provide says that it's just like programming a robot......meaning our turnout is already determined, just as programming a robot, whatever they do is determined by someone else. Pretty simple to see how I draw the conclusion.
Don't you believe that believer's names were written in the Lamb's book of life before the foundation of the world?
Don't you believe that no one can come to the Son unless the Father draws him and that those who are so drawn are so drawn because they have been given to the Son by the Father?
Determining beforehand what will occur is not the same as "programming" it to occur.
Determining that evil men would crucify the Son of God is not the same as "programming" evil men to crucify Him.
I guess it's easy to lose one's salvation?
I don't think it's as much as not thinking it can be lost, but it is if God knew and knows where you will land and be and including you supposed choices, if God knows all of that and we say He does, then how can we make a choice, or do anything in and of only ourselves alone to change or alter ourselves, or our course at all (without God) ect...?IMO, yes it is, and as easily as starting to live in wilful sin again after we are saved. The beauty of it is, we can always get forgiveness and give it another try, but if Christ returns while we are living in sin, that'll be it..not worth taking the chance.
While there are other that feel we can do as we like and salvation cannot be lost.
There are several treads on it.
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