As for other mentions of OT Saints, You may want to read chapter 4 of Romans and keep in mind that originally, there were no chapters.No where does Paul mention previous saints.
He is explaining how God calls both Jew and Gentile.
Your whole post was made up fiction by those who hate the grace of God.
From A.W.Pink;As for other mentions of OT Saints, You may want to read chapter 4 of Romans and keep in mind that originally, there were no chapters.
pt2;The verses in question are first about the OT saints, IMO. It's Paul looking backwardsq
You need to take a closer look... Why is it all in past tense? And then when it speaks to you it says what should we say in response to these things?
pt3Does any Christian "hate the grace of God."? I don't think so. But some of us realize that we are not deserving of grace any more than any other human, and we believe that grace truly is offered to all. Romans 9-11 confirms that grace if for all, not just for people of a certain race.
Why couldn’t all of that just mean that He pre-knew Christ and the seed was good. The context of the NT is that of renewing the mind, heart and spirit. Just bacteria left after that isn’t it?From A.W.Pink;
When that term is used in connection with God, it often signifies to regard with favor , denoting not mere cognition but an affection for the object in view. “I know thee by name” ( Exo.33:17). “Ye have been rebellious against the Lord from the day that I knew you” ( Deut. 9:24). “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee” ( Jer. 1:5). “They have made princes and I knew it not ”( Hosea 8:4). “You only have I known of all the families of the earth” ( Amos 3:2).
In these passages knew signifies either loved or appointed .
In like manner, the word “know” is frequently used in the New Testament, in the same sense as in the Old Testament. “Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you” ( Matt. 7:23). “I am the good shepherd and know My sheep and am known of Mine” ( John 10:14). “If any man love God, the same is known of Him” ( 1 Cor. 8:3). “The Lord knoweth them that are His” ( 2 Tim. 2:19).
Now the word “foreknowledge” as it is used in the New Testament is less ambiguous than in its simple form “to know.” If every passage in which it occurs is carefully studied, it will be discovered that it is a moot point whether it ever has reference to the mere perception of events which are yet to take place. The fact is that “foreknowledge” is never used in Scripture in connection with events or actions; instead, it always has reference to persons . It is persons God is said to “foreknow,” not the actions of those persons. In proof of this we shall now quote each passage where this expression is found.
The first occurrence is in Acts 2:23. There we read, “Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.” If careful attention is paid to the wording of this verse it will be seen that the apostle was not there speaking of God’s foreknowledge of the act of the crucifixion, but of the Personcrucified: “Him (Christ) being delivered by,” etc.
The second occurrence is in Romans 8;29,30. “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image, of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called,” etc.
Weigh well the pronoun that is used here. It is not what He did foreknow, but whom He did. It is not the surrendering of their wills nor the believing of their hearts but the persons themselves, which is here in view. “God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew” ( Rom. 11:2).
Once more the plain reference is to persons, and to persons only.
The last mention is in 1 Pet. 1:2: “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.” Who are elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father? The previous verse tells us: the reference is to the “strangers scattered” i.e. the Diaspora, the Dispersion, the believing Jews. Thus, here too the reference is to persons, and not to their foreseen acts.
Why couldn’t all of that just mean that He pre-knew Christ and the seed was good. The context of the NT is that of renewing the mind, heart and spirit. Just bacteria left after that isn’t it?
You really want to cast your lot with the hyper Calvinists like Pink, who literally believed God hated all the reprobates?From A.W.Pink;
When that term is used in connection with God, it often signifies to regard with favor , denoting not mere cognition but an affection for the object in view. “I know thee by name” ( Exo.33:17). “Ye have been rebellious against the Lord from the day that I knew you” ( Deut. 9:24). “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee” ( Jer. 1:5). “They have made princes and I knew it not ”( Hosea 8:4). “You only have I known of all the families of the earth” ( Amos 3:2).
In these passages knew signifies either loved or appointed .
In like manner, the word “know” is frequently used in the New Testament, in the same sense as in the Old Testament. “Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you” ( Matt. 7:23). “I am the good shepherd and know My sheep and am known of Mine” ( John 10:14). “If any man love God, the same is known of Him” ( 1 Cor. 8:3). “The Lord knoweth them that are His” ( 2 Tim. 2:19).
Now the word “foreknowledge” as it is used in the New Testament is less ambiguous than in its simple form “to know.” If every passage in which it occurs is carefully studied, it will be discovered that it is a moot point whether it ever has reference to the mere perception of events which are yet to take place. The fact is that “foreknowledge” is never used in Scripture in connection with events or actions; instead, it always has reference to persons . It is persons God is said to “foreknow,” not the actions of those persons. In proof of this we shall now quote each passage where this expression is found.
The first occurrence is in Acts 2:23. There we read, “Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.” If careful attention is paid to the wording of this verse it will be seen that the apostle was not there speaking of God’s foreknowledge of the act of the crucifixion, but of the Personcrucified: “Him (Christ) being delivered by,” etc.
The second occurrence is in Romans 8;29,30. “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image, of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called,” etc.
Weigh well the pronoun that is used here. It is not what He did foreknow, but whom He did. It is not the surrendering of their wills nor the believing of their hearts but the persons themselves, which is here in view. “God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew” ( Rom. 11:2).
Once more the plain reference is to persons, and to persons only.
The last mention is in 1 Pet. 1:2: “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.” Who are elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father? The previous verse tells us: the reference is to the “strangers scattered” i.e. the Diaspora, the Dispersion, the believing Jews. Thus, here too the reference is to persons, and not to their foreseen acts.
This is not foreknowledge at all. I can know what I intend to cause. God knows what will be simply because he is God and has all knowledge. He doesn't have to render all things certain to know them. That road leads to fatalism, whatever will be will be, so who cares?God foreknows what will be because He has decreed what shall be .
This is not foreknowledge at all. I can know what I intend to cause. God knows what will be simply because he is God and has all knowledge. He doesn't have to render all things certain to know them. That road leads to fatalism, whatever will be will be, so who cares?
Foreknowledge is not looking forward down a time tunnel. It is knowing the persons spoken of.This is not foreknowledge at all. I can know what I intend to cause. God knows what will be simply because he is God and has all knowledge. He doesn't have to render all things certain to know them. That road leads to fatalism, whatever will be will be, so who cares?
That's exactly what I pointed out. Paul was speaking of God knowing certain people in the past and being faithful to the nation of Israel. And the reason to go back to chapter four, is for one, it shows how these people were justified, by faith, not works. But Paul had a habit of often mentioning a subject and then coming back to it later, and expounding on it more. You can see the same thing in Chapter 3 and 9, which have many parallels.Foreknowledge is not looking forward down a time tunnel. It is knowing the persons spoken of.
Saying and doing it are two different things.Sure I can. They are just standard Calvinist fare. Nope, Pink was definitely a hyper.
That's exactly what I pointed out. Paul was speaking of God knowing certain people in the past and being faithful to the nation of Israel.
Ephesians 1Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?8
No to both.Did the one offering the job "predestine" the 3 men to be offered a job ?
Did the one doing the testing "predestine" the 19 men not to be offered a job ?
Because that isn't what it says, at all. "Couldn't it really mean something else?" is a crock, but a lot of favorite doctrines are based on precisely that.Why couldn’t all of that just mean that He pre-knew Christ and the seed was good. The context of the NT is that of renewing the mind, heart and spirit. Just bacteria left after that isn’t it?
Well poisoning. 15 yards and loss of down.You really want to cast your lot with the hyper Calvinists like Pink, who literally believed God hated all the reprobates?
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