Predestination

Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 55.6%
  • No

    Votes: 16 44.4%

  • Total voters
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Jonaitis

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Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48
 

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Ted
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Hi joaitis,

Yes!!!! God predestined that all those who would believe in the testimony and sacrifice of His Son, would gain eternal life. He predestined that before the foundations of the earth were set in place. Before God said, "Let there be light!", He had already established and predestined that He would send His Son to pay the penalty of sin for all those who would believe His Son and establish His truth as their truth.

God blessed,
In Christ, ted
 
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tturt

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God choose us then whosoever can agree to His plan Didnt vote because of the wording.. He knows who is going to accept His son. Here's a couple of Scriptures.

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Rom 8;29

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16
 
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bling

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Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48
God predestined to save all those who accept His charity from the beginning of time.

These are the “many” appointed to eternal life.

God did know from the beginning of time all the individuals who accepted His charity in human future.
 
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bling

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Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So far the reading from Gods Holy word.
Why was God merciful and compassionate to you and not to some others?

Could God have been merciful and compassionate to everyone at some point, yet after they repeatedly refused to accept His mercy and compassion, He removed it, to benefit those still able to accept?

I know we like to bring up Jacob and Esau before birth, but just as we are to both hate and Love our family by Jesus’ command can God both hate the fact he could not work with Esau’s personality and yet Love Esau the person to the point Esau could be in heaven today?
 
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Kate30

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Why was God merciful and compassionate to you and not to some others?

Could God have been merciful and compassionate to everyone at some point, yet after they repeatedly refused to accept His mercy and compassion, He removed it, to benefit those still able to accept?

I know we like to bring up Jacob and Esau before birth, but just as we are to both hate and Love our family by Jesus’ command can God both hate the fact he could not work with Esau’s personality and yet Love Esau the person to the point Esau could be in heaven today?
Bling as stated in Romans 9:15 God will have mercy and compassion apon whom he pleases. Not too many people like being told by others what fruit and vegetables or cigarette brand they should choose when they go shopping. Yet you demand of God exactly that. That he should choose all. Hope that has been some help. Why did God choose me . I don’t know. I guess he liked what he saw.
 
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Albion

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No I don’t . But thank you for the colourful words. Sleep time for me . You do have a nice day.
IF God chooses his elect on the basis of what he sees in them, it isn't pre-destination, but rather a choosing based on something afterwards.
 
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bling

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Bling as stated in Romans 9:15 God will have mercy and compassion apon whom he pleases. Not too many people like being told by others what fruit and vegetables or cigarette brand they should choose when they go shopping. Yet you demand of God exactly that. That he should choose all. Hope that has been some help. Why did God choose me . I don’t know. I guess he liked what he saw.
My God is the epitome of mercy and compassion (Godly type Love/charity), but not everyone is willing to humbly accept pure charity as charity and God is not going to force people to accept charity since that would make God out to be holding the shotgun at a shotgun wedding. God would know when a person will never accept His mercy (Love) and thus not choose to extend to that person further His mercy and compassion, by God's choice.
Lets look Ro. 9:
Upon leaving the shop with the Potter’s proud mark on the jar (the birth of a baby) , they are great for what they were made to do: common or special use, but after leaving the shop things can happen pleasing the Potter or embarrassing the Potter to the point He does not want His mark on the pot. So, what could happen to the pot (special or common) that would cause the Potter not to want His mark on the pot?

You have to keep in mind the context of who is writing and how Paul uses the analogy other places:

Paul uses these same Greek words: τιμὴν (honorable or special purpose) and ἀτιμίαν (dishonorable or common use) in 2 Tim. 2:20 conveying the same idea of two types of vessels in a rich person’s house, but that would mean the Paul did not use ἀτιμίαν to mean “dishonorable”, since there would not be any dishonorable vessel in a rich man’s house, so Paul’s meaning is a common used vessel.

To understand better, we have to look at:

2 Tim. 2: 20 In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use. 21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

Paul said the common (ἀτιμίαν) vessels could themselves “cleanse themselves” (their free will action) and thus become articles of honor special, holy and useful. If the vessel itself can clean up, than it is also possible the vessel can become cracked (damaged) to the point of being useless.
 
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Jonaitis

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God predestined to save all those who accept His charity from the beginning of time.

These are the “many” appointed to eternal life.

God did know from the beginning of time all the individuals who accepted His charity in human future.

...then that isn't predestination, which is God determining beforehand what will happen and how it will happen to that individual.
 
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Jonaitis

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He knew that before the world began. As with all his elect. Predestination for sure.

Well, everyone agrees that God knows the future, but does God base his choices upon what his creatures would or would not do? Then, that isn't really predestination or election (if even people say it). Divine election is outside the influence of the elected.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48
Tangent question related perhaps to the heart/motives...

Suppose someone gave a test to 30 men who were each 25 years old.

As part of the test, they were questioned as to whether they would willingly pour salt , a lot of salt, in someone else's pot of soup while it was cooking , making their pot of soup totally unsavory.

Also if they would be willing to do that, if they were paid $5000.00 to do that.

3 men passed the test, not be willing to do that for any price, they testified.

All the others, 19 men, were willing to do that for a price .....

The one giving the test

then decided to offer the 3 men a very good job in six months, and not to offer the 19 men anything.

Did the one offering the job "predestine" the 3 men to be offered a job ?
Did the one doing the testing "predestine" the 19 men not to be offered a job ?

This is to clarify, if possible, the meaning people have of what they think "predestine" means .....
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Divine election is outside the influence of the elected.
UNLESS..... it's not.

Is there anywhere in Yahuweh's Word, ever, that indicates the elected ones, the remnant, can influence Yahuweh ? That they can do something to receive a blessing, or to receive a curse even ?

Like: whoever (anyone) trusts in the flesh, I (Yahuweh) Myself curse them. (even the elect ? cursed until they repent , if they trust in man/armies/ kings/ pastors/ etc anything in the flesh )
 
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Jonaitis

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This is to clarify, if possible, the meaning people have of what they think "predestine" means .....

It doesn't really matter what people think the word means, it already has a concrete definition - to determine beforehand the end of something. The biblical term is the same thing.

Notice the order in this verse:

"And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." - Romans 8:30

It doesn't say to those who believed he then predestined. It doesn't say to those who are justified he then predestined. It says that those whom he predestined, he called them to faith in Christ. To those who were called to faith were justified in Christ. To those who were justified will be glorified with Christ.
 
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Jonaitis

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Is there anywhere in Yahuweh's Word, ever, that indicates the elected ones, the remnant, can influence Yahuweh ? That they can do something to receive a blessing, or to receive a curse even ?

I agree that no creature can influence God, but some here are suggesting that we do, that God looks down through the corridors of time and bases his divine purposes on what the creature did. It really doesn't make sense if you think about it, but some are determined (no pun intended) to believe that's how it all works.
 
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bling

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...then that isn't predestination, which is God determining beforehand what will happen and how it will happen to that individual.
Perfect foreknowledge is not the same as predestination nor is it, God foreordained to happen. Lots of human future events are predestined and foreordained to happen, since humans are given just the little free will ability needed to fulfill their earthly objective.

Where in scripture do you find: only specific individuals can be predestined and we cannot have general events predestined without specific times and individuals?
 
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