Predestination

[dennis777]

Jesus commanded us to love all people, including our enemies.

How do we """feel""" love for wicked people?

Very often, love is a decision, rather than a feeling.
I """DECIDE""" to do good things for my neighbor, my wife, my enemies, etc,.... whether I ***FEEL*** any love for them or not.

In that way, I can obey that Holy Commandment "Love your enemies".

dennis777

 

[cygnusx1]

Jesus commanded us to love all people, including our enemies.

How do we """feel""" love for wicked people?

Very often, love is a decision, rather than a feeling.
I """DECIDE""" to do good things for my neighbor, my wife, my enemies, etc,.... whether I ***FEEL*** any love for them or not.

In that way, I can obey that Holy Commandment "Love your enemies".

dennis777

Is it not possible to Love and Hate a person/s at the same time for very different reasons ?


Why does God bother at all with the Non-Elect if He doesn't have some Love for them ?

Why did Jesus weep over Jerusalem ?

Why did Paul weep over FALLEN Israel ?

Does not the Old Testament show us that God Himself can be in extreme turmoil over sinners ........ see Hosea 11:8


even Esau was left with a Blessing , and God hated him.

Look at Ishmael , God didn't Elect Him , but still left him a blessing !

and Cain was even protected by God after he killed Abel ... Under the Law there is no protection.

Also God's Great Love for Israel , lead some to think God couldn't love those He hadn't chosen ........... ENTER JONAH !


If these illustrations do not depict something of the WIDENESS of God's Love , I fail to see what better word could describe it.

Sincerely Cygnus

 

[TruthMiner]

Is it not possible to Love and Hate a person/s at the same time for very different reasons ?

Not without being a very confused person.

Why does God bother at all with the Non-Elect if He doesn't have some Love for them ?

Because he wants them to become elect by being found in His Elect One.

Why did Jesus weep over Jerusalem ?

Because they wouldn't listen. He didn't hate them. Indeed, he gave a picture of a mother hen compassionately loving her chicks.

Why did Paul weep over FALLEN Israel ?

Same thing.

Does not the Old Testament show us that God Himself can be in extreme turmoil over sinners ........ see Hosea 11:8

Frustration is not hate.

even Esau was left with a Blessing , and God hated him.

Are you about to hate your mother, father, and children, in the sense you pose?

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

God gave you a concept of "hate" here to understand what is intended. Why don't you heed it?

Look at Ishmael , God didn't Elect Him , but still left him a blessing !

Elect him for what? Whatever your imagination says?

and Cain was even protected by God after he killed Abel ... Under the Law there is no protection.

What?

Also God's Great Love for Israel , lead some to think God couldn't love those He hadn't chosen ........... ENTER JONAH !

Guess Israel WASN'T his chosen people then.... at least by your reckoning.

If these illustrations do not depict something of the WIDENESS of God's Love , I fail to see what better word could describe it.

Sincerely Cygnus

Try taking off your creedal glasses and you will see the true God reflected in the Scriptues.

 

[cygnusx1]

Not without being a very confused person.

So you are saying God doesn't love and hate ??

Because he wants them to become elect by being found in His Elect One.

what God desires even that He does , one who is Reprobate will remain so.

Because they wouldn't listen. He didn't hate them. Indeed, he gave a picture of a mother hen compassionately loving her chicks.

yes !

Frustration is not hate.

do you deny there is real hatred in God ?

Are you about to hate your mother, father, and children, in the sense you pose?

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

context determines the type of hatred intended , here hyperbole is plainly in use , which is obvious!

God gave you a concept of "hate" here to understand what is intended. Why don't you heed it?

Elect him for what? Whatever your imagination says?

back to provoking brethren hey

What?

Guess Israel WASN'T his chosen people then.... at least by your reckoning.

don't be absurd dude!
Covenant love does not rule out a general love for mankind anymore than a special intimate love a husband has for his wife rules out his 'love' for mankind , ... that is what my post was about ... but I guess you didn't realise it.

Try taking off your creedal glasses and you will see the true God reflected in the Scriptues.

hahaha , more of the same going after people with a stick hehe , that is some method of convincing others you have there !

 

[cygnusx1]

I think what needs to be kept in mind is that God does hate (otherwise hell would never exist) so although we have to be very careful when handling this subject , the Bible does indeed show a side to God that is indicative of TRUE Hatred ........... of course , it should be kept in mind that hate and Love are not always mutually exclusive .......



Leviticus 20:23 - And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Leviticus 26:30 - And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Deuteronomy 32:19 - And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Psalm 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 5:6 - Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalm 10:3 - For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.

Psalm 11:5 - The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psalm 53:5 - There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.

Psalm 73:20 - As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

Psalm 78:59 - When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:

Psalm 106:40 - Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

Proverbs 6:16-19 - These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 22:14 - The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.

Lamentations 2:6 - And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Hosea 9:15 - All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Zechariah 11:8 - Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Malachi 1:3 - And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Romans 9:13 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

[enegue]

Hi guys,

At the end of the movie, "The Good Son", the mother is struggling with her son on a cliff top. Her son's friend appears and the continued struggle results in both boys slipping off the edge with the mother reaching out and grasping one boy's arm in her left hand, and the other boy's arm in her right. The boys are suspended over the edge of the cliff and it is clear that the mother will lose both if she doesn't let go of one, and grasp the other with both hands.

At the last possible moment when she can no longer delay her choice, she lets go of the child of her own flesh and grasps onto the other boy's arm with both hands. She watches helplessly as her son falls to his death. She then pulls the other boy to safety.

This is "love" and "hate" guys.

You "love" that which you grasp with both hands, and you "hate" that which you let go. It doesn't matter how much pain you feel when you let it go, the bottom line is you didn't love it enough to let the other go.

This is what Jesus means whe he says,
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
-- Luke 14:26

Cheers,
enegue

 

[TruthMiner]

Hi guys,

At the end of the movie, "The Good Son", the mother is struggling with her son on a cliff top. Her son's friend appears and the continued struggle results in both boys slipping off the edge with the mother reaching out and grasping one boy's arm in her left hand, and the other boy's arm in her right. The boys are suspended over the edge of the cliff and it is clear that the mother will lose both if she doesn't let go of one, and grasp the other with both hands.

At the last possible moment when she can no longer delay her choice, she lets go of the child of her own flesh and grasps onto the other boy's arm with both hands. She watches helplessly as her son falls to his death. She then pulls the other boy to safety.

This is "love" and "hate" guys.

You "love" that which you grasp with both hands, and you "hate" that which you let go. It doesn't matter how much pain you feel when you let it go, the bottom line is you didn't love it enough to let the other go.

This is what Jesus means whe he says,
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
-- Luke 14:26

Cheers,
enegue

Excellent.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

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