Predestination vs. Faith

[5thKingdom]

Are these not those who were called but rejected the offer of Salvation through Christ?

If not, then what separates (b) from (c)?

As I clearly stated above.... the "tares" are within the "Kingdom of Heaven"....
just like the "wheat" are within the Christian Kingdom (the churches).

The others are OUTSIDE the Christian Kingdom.
They do not CLAIM to be Christian... like the "tares" claim.
They do not LOOK like the "wheat"... as the "tares" do.
They REJECT the Gospel.

This is not difficult... here is what I said before:


Remember, the Bible separates the world into three (3) groups:
(a) the saved "wheat/sheep" in the "Kingdom of Heaven" and
(b) the unsaved "tares/goats" in the "Kingdom of Heaven" and
(c) the lost souls OUTSIDE the Kingdom... like Jews, Moslems,
Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists, Pagans, etc.


..

 

[JohnKing67]

Hebrews 11:6
Without Faith it is impossible to please God.

God created us for His own pleasure and He desires us to pray to Him and Him alone.

Romans 8:24
For we are saved by hope; but Hope that is seen is not Hope; for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

God loves it when we persist in prayer with Hope and Faith, even when things aren't working out at the moment. The decision to trust in God despite bad things happening is precious in His sight.

If predestination is correct then the conditions of our hearts are ultimately premeditated. How then could God derive pleasure from Faith-inspired prayer? Isn't it through the perseverance of His children in prayer that he derives pleasure from our prayers?

I don't believe in predestination as in all our decisions are determined ahead of time against our will. If that were the case then how could freewill exist?

 

[5thKingdom]

I don't believe in predestination as in all our decisions are determined ahead of time against our will. If that were the case then how could freewill exist?

Of course the doctrine of Election (or Predestination) does not say
(as you stated) that "all our decisions are determined ahead of time against our will".
That is a strawman argument.

The Doctrine of Election says that we have "free will" to chose to wear white socks
or black socks... but we do NOT have "free will" to make a DEAD SOUL into a LIVE SOUL.
We do not have the "free will" to repent... because we are spiritually DEAD until God alone
makes us "born again" by giving us His "indwelling" Holy Spirit.

When you CONFLATE "free will" to include the ability to go from DEATH to LIFE....
you are not arguing against the doctrine of Election. You are arguing a strawman.

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Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable;
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

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[JohnKing67]

"We do not have the "free will" to repent...

We don't?? Then why does the Bible say to repent?

 

[5thKingdom]

We don't?? Then why does the Bible say to repent?

Because that is the command of God.
And, since man is accountable to God, the "Lake-of-Fire"
is justice for all those who do not repent.

The Bible also says that NONE will repent (no not one) unless they are "born again".
The measure of Biblical truth has NEVER been the harmony of some select Scriptures....
the measure of Biblical truth has ALWAYS been the harmony of ALL RELATED SCRIPTURES.

So... I can harmonize the reality of Scriptures teaching that all men are commanded
to repent with - with the reality of Scriptures teaching that NONE will obey that command
unless they are "born again".

However... you cannot harmonize BOTH of those Biblical Truths.
Your view can harmonize some select verses - but must intentionally ignore
DOZENS of Scriptures that contradict your conclusion.

Again.... the FIRST PRINCIPLE of Bible Study is that we cannot even pretend to have
found Biblical Truth about a doctrine until it harmonizes with ALL RELATED Scripture.

BTW.... the extension of your position requires Universal Atonement
while mine requires Particular Atonement. So you can see that all these
"essential doctrines" are part of one cohesive whole.

.

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[JohnKing67]

The Bible also says that NONE will repent (no not one) unless they are "born again".

Sounds like you're saying repentance comes after being born again? If so, then I completely disagree.

 

[friend of]

You do realize that Jesus is NOT the Father.... right?

Ah, do you belive in the Trinity or no?

And no, this does not apply to Jesus unless you are suggesting there was a chance that Jesus would have chosen to reject God and live as an atheist.

Also, can you respond to what you said earlier when you separated the groups into a, b, and c? Which qualities differentiate b from c? It seems that they would be the same in my view.

 

[Seymore Bell]

Sounds like you're saying repentance comes after being born again? If so, then I completely disagree.

Ch. Bell

List the chapter and verse of your quoted? Looking to hear from you on this request?
Then, I can move forward on answering your question.

Repentance always proceed born again.