roman2819

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Most Christians sooner or later struggle with questions about predestination.

Many Christians don’t like the idea of predestination because it feels unfair. I think the problem is not with predestination itself, but with a lack of understanding about how predestination is related to foreknowledge. Once we understand what the Bible says about predestination and foreknowledge, it is easy to see how predestination is actually a good and encouraging truth which is entirely consistent with God’s justice, love, and even with our free will.

There are two Bible passages which explicitly link God’s foreknowledge with predestination. The first passage is Romans 8:29.

Predestination%2BForeknowledge%2BCalvinism%2BArminianism%2B2.jpg


This passage shows us several things about predestination and foreknowledge:
1. The foreknowledge is knowledge related to people, as indicated by the phrase “those whom.”
2. This foreknowledge in some way logically precedes and leads to predestination.
3. The passage does NOT say that God predestines who will have faith.
4. The passage DOES say that God makes a destiny for us whom He foreknew, and that destiny is to become like Jesus.

The second passage which links foreknowledge and predestination is 1 Peter 1:1-2.

Predestination%2BForeknowledge%2BCalvinism%2BArminianism%2B3.jpg


This passage shows us some truths similar to the truths we saw in Romans:

1. Being “elect” (which pretty much everyone agrees is the same thing as being chosen or predestined) is based on God’s foreknowledge. That’s what “according to the foreknowledge of God the Father” means.
2. The passage does NOT say that God chooses who will have faith.
3. The passage does indicate that election has to do with both sanctification and forgiveness. Sanctification is the process where we become more and more like Jesus, so this is the same thing that Paul described in Romans 8:29 using the words “to be conformed to the image of His Son”.

What Specific Foreknowledge Leads to Predestination?

The Bible does not specifically tell us. We can’t say for sure. But I think it is possible that Paul and Peter were both referring to the fact that God knew ahead of time who, given the right opportunities and circumstances and help from Him, would freely accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

In other words, I don’t think the Bible is teaching that God predetermined who would have faith in Jesus. Rather, I think the Bible is teaching that God knew ahead of time who would have faith in Jesus. Then, based on that knowledge, God made a plan (a destiny, a predestination) for these people that their sins would be forgiven and they would be transformed to become like Jesus, and they would live in glory with God forever.

When you understand predestination in this way, you immediately realize that there is nothing unfair about it. In fact, you see that it is an amazing act of love. Even though we have faith in Jesus, we never could have saved ourselves. We never could have changed ourselves from being sinful people to being people who are like Jesus. But God makes sure this happens for everyone whom He knew would be willing to accept Him.

My destiny is not in doubt, and neither is yours, if you believe in Jesus. Predestination is wonderful! Thank God for predestination! God has chosen our destination, and it’s a really good one!

What Does This Have to Do With Calvinism and Arminianism?

You don’t have to understand the terms “Calvinism” and “Arminianism”. These terms are not in the Bible. However, since many Christians use these terms, you might want to know a little about them. These terms refer to two ways of understanding how predestination works. There’s more to Calvinism and Arminianism than predestination, but predestination is an important part of the issue.

The view I just shared above has a technical name: “conditional election.” This view, which represents my best effort to understand the Bible on this issue, is consistent with Arminianism. That doesn’t mean that I am committed to the full system of beliefs which are related to Arminianism, but it does mean that I lean toward an Arminian understanding of predestination.

Calvinists understand the Bible to teach “unconditional election.” They believe that God chose ahead of time who would have saving faith and who would not, and that God’s choice had nothing at all to do with anything He knew ahead of time about what each person would do or would be like.

Since I Lean Towards Arminianism, How Do I Feel About Calvinists?

I thank God for my brothers and sisters in Christ who are Calvinists. Although we disagree on some points of doctrine, we share a common faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are on the same team! I have been greatly blessed by the preaching, teaching, and writing ministries of men like John Piper and Wayne Grudem, both of whom are Calvinist. For me, learning from them is like eating a fish. You eat the meat and throw out the bones. In the case of these men, I have found them serving up huge amounts of delicious, nutritious fish meat which rarely contains more than a few small bones. They are advancing the work of God, and I thank God for them. I feel the same way about less famous Calvinists I know.

It’s fine to discuss issues like this, and they are not unimportant, but I hope Christians will not divide over issues like Arminianism vs. Calvinism. Sadly, some do. I am hoping we can have a discussion that will be peaceful, respectful, and helpful, even as we may strongly disagree on some issues. I also hope that those who are relatively new to this issue will feel free to share thoughts and questions so that the discussion is not dominated by a few of us who have already thought about this a lot.

Giving Thanks Together

Finally, all of us, Calvinists and Arminians alike, should thank God for His great grace, and specifically, that He made a plan for our salvation and uses His great wisdom and power to ensure that plan succeeds.


This OP is a modified version of a post on my blog.

May I share this with you? Predestination as said in Ephesians has been badly misunderstood. But this is what it means in context>>

Way back, even before the foundation of the earth, God foreknew that He would choose the Jews to be His nation and people, and later, He would also offer redemption to the Gentiles. God had pre-planned or predestine all this to unite both Jews and Gentiles in Christ Jesus.

The above is explained in 70 verses from Ephesians 1,2,3. Note how Paul used the words "BOTH people" or "BOTH Jews and Gentiles" 3 times as he explained how Jesus brought the two peoples together. Note also he said "you Gentiles" which means he was not referring to individual predestination. If one take time to digest the contents and context, you will see that none of this is about single or double predestination at all.

Why did Paul said "before the foundation of the earth"? It was to answer the Jews who claimed that they were there first, and because Israel rejected Christ, then God decided to offer redemption to the Gentiles at the eleventh hour, so to speak; so the Gentiles were second class (the Jewish Christians probably said). However, the apostle said that way, way back, God had planned to reach out to Gentiles -- as early as you can think of, even before earth was made -- that is how EARLY God had predestine or preplanned.

Wanting to put the Jews and Gentiles on a level playing field, Paul spent much effort to explain that the Gentiles are receiving a great eternal inheritance and the same Holy Spirit from God. The Gentiles' redemption are no less than the Jews.

It is meaningful to read and appreciate context.

319568.jpg
 
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Seems some want to believe that God makes us get saved. I think a good study of the Greek word used might help. God does not MAKE anyone choose to follow him.

Have you ever read Psalms 65:4?

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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God chose the decedents of Arron, but not all of them were blessed.

Irrelevant.

What does it say?

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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sdowney717

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Yes. And it does not say he makes us believe. It says he causes it. There is a difference.
That is true, God does not believe for us, we believe after the Father teaches and leads us to Christ by the working of the Holy Spirit.
Every single one who hears and learns of the Father, comes to Christ.
All those the Father draws will hear and learn and come to Christ and all of them will be saved.

John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.



John 6
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves.
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.


God must also grant for you to come to Christ, otherwise you will not continue with Him, you will depart in unbelief. Your following Christ would only have been based on an emotional experience.

John 6
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more.
 
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roman2819

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Seems some want to believe that God makes us get saved. I think a good study of the Greek word used might help. God does not MAKE anyone choose to follow him.

Totally agree that God does not choose anyone to follow him.

However, even without studying the Greek word "predestination," it is still possible to understand what Paul was saying . It is all about reading and interpreting in context.

First, straight to the point, this is what Predestination means in context of Ephesians or the Bible:

Way back, even before the foundation of the earth, God foreknew that He would first choose the Jews to be His nation, and later, He would also offer redemption to the Gentiles. God had predestine or pre-planned all this to unite both Jews and Gentiles in Christ Jesus.

The above is explained in 70 verses in Ephesians 1,2,3. Too many Christians just read Ephesians 1:14 and go tangent off thinking that God decides to save individuals. However, the next fifty verses (in chapter 2 and 3) explains "predestination" further: God had planned for Jews and Gentiles to "come to unity" through Christ Jesus. The apostle used the word "BOTH people" and "BOTH Jews and Gentiles" three times; at no time did he ever refer to individual predestination.

Why did Paul said "before the foundation of the earth"? It was to answer the Jews who claimed that God suddenly decided to offer redemption to the Gentiles after Israel rejected Jesus; they were implying that the Gentiles were second class or less important in God's eyes. However, Paul emphasized that way back, as early you can think of -- even before the foundation of the earth -- God had planned to reach out to the Gentiles; that is how early God had predestined or pre-planned this. It did not mean that He decided whether to save Jack or Jane before the earth was made.

We will see that Paul went to great length to say that the Gentiles are receiving a great eternal inheritance and Holy Spirit from God. If one do not appreciate context, then Paul appeared to be saying something we already know. But his intent was really to emphasize that the Gentiles' redemption are no less than the Jews, hence he elaborated on the richness of their inheritance.

Indeed, there is a great difference between reading words and appreciating the significance of the words in context. Those who does not know context misinterpret all over the place, zooming in on words and create endless theories.
 
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BBAS 64

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I agree! I could not have come to the Father without his grace and love, which made it possible, which enabled me. Thank God for His grace and love and provision of salvation in Christ!

Good Day, Mark

I do not wish to hi-jack the thread, but I do have a question here.

Are you saying that the will "be taught" by God and "heard and learn from" is better translated love and grace?


The text says also "comes to me" as the direct effect of the cause "taught by, hearing and learning", you seem to infer that it is a potential effect " possible which enabled me" and not a direct cause and effect clause that the grammar demands why is that?

Let have the context:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me--
Joh 6:46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
Joh 6:48 I am the bread of life.
Joh 6:49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
Joh 6:50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."

In Him,

Bill
 
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VI.— When foreknowledge is ascribed to God, the word imports (1) that general prescience whereby He knew from all eternity both what He Himself would do, and what His creatures, in consequence of His efficacious and permissive decree, should do likewise. The Divine foreknowledge, considered in this view, is absolutely universal; it extends to all beings that did, do or ever shall exist, and to all actions that ever have been, that are or shall be done, whether good or evil, natural, civil or moral. (2) The word often denotes that special prescience which has for its objects His own elect, and them alone, whom He is in a peculiar sense said to know and foreknow (Psalm 1.6; John 10.27; 2 Tim. 2.19; Rom. 8.29; 1 Peter 1.2), and this knowledge is connected with, or rather the same with love, favour and approbation.


Absolute Predestination. — Reformed Presbyterian Church (Covenanted) - "Steelite" Covenanters
 
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Most Christians sooner or later struggle with questions about predestination.

Many Christians don’t like the idea of predestination because it feels unfair. I think the problem is not with predestination itself, but with a lack of understanding about how predestination is related to foreknowledge. Once we understand what the Bible says about predestination and foreknowledge, it is easy to see how predestination is actually a good and encouraging truth which is entirely consistent with God’s justice, love, and even with our free will.

There are two Bible passages which explicitly link God’s foreknowledge with predestination. The first passage is Romans 8:29.

Predestination%2BForeknowledge%2BCalvinism%2BArminianism%2B2.jpg


This passage shows us several things about predestination and foreknowledge:
1. The foreknowledge is knowledge related to people, as indicated by the phrase “those whom.”
2. This foreknowledge in some way logically precedes and leads to predestination.
3. The passage does NOT say that God predestines who will have faith.
4. The passage DOES say that God makes a destiny for us whom He foreknew, and that destiny is to become like Jesus.

The second passage which links foreknowledge and predestination is 1 Peter 1:1-2.

Predestination%2BForeknowledge%2BCalvinism%2BArminianism%2B3.jpg


This passage shows us some truths similar to the truths we saw in Romans:

1. Being “elect” (which pretty much everyone agrees is the same thing as being chosen or predestined) is based on God’s foreknowledge. That’s what “according to the foreknowledge of God the Father” means.
2. The passage does NOT say that God chooses who will have faith.
3. The passage does indicate that election has to do with both sanctification and forgiveness. Sanctification is the process where we become more and more like Jesus, so this is the same thing that Paul described in Romans 8:29 using the words “to be conformed to the image of His Son”.

What Specific Foreknowledge Leads to Predestination?

The Bible does not specifically tell us. We can’t say for sure. But I think it is possible that Paul and Peter were both referring to the fact that God knew ahead of time who, given the right opportunities and circumstances and help from Him, would freely accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

In other words, I don’t think the Bible is teaching that God predetermined who would have faith in Jesus. Rather, I think the Bible is teaching that God knew ahead of time who would have faith in Jesus. Then, based on that knowledge, God made a plan (a destiny, a predestination) for these people that their sins would be forgiven and they would be transformed to become like Jesus, and they would live in glory with God forever.

When you understand predestination in this way, you immediately realize that there is nothing unfair about it. In fact, you see that it is an amazing act of love. Even though we have faith in Jesus, we never could have saved ourselves. We never could have changed ourselves from being sinful people to being people who are like Jesus. But God makes sure this happens for everyone whom He knew would be willing to accept Him.

My destiny is not in doubt, and neither is yours, if you believe in Jesus. Predestination is wonderful! Thank God for predestination! God has chosen our destination, and it’s a really good one!

What Does This Have to Do With Calvinism and Arminianism?

You don’t have to understand the terms “Calvinism” and “Arminianism”. These terms are not in the Bible. However, since many Christians use these terms, you might want to know a little about them. These terms refer to two ways of understanding how predestination works. There’s more to Calvinism and Arminianism than predestination, but predestination is an important part of the issue.

The view I just shared above has a technical name: “conditional election.” This view, which represents my best effort to understand the Bible on this issue, is consistent with Arminianism. That doesn’t mean that I am committed to the full system of beliefs which are related to Arminianism, but it does mean that I lean toward an Arminian understanding of predestination.

Calvinists understand the Bible to teach “unconditional election.” They believe that God chose ahead of time who would have saving faith and who would not, and that God’s choice had nothing at all to do with anything He knew ahead of time about what each person would do or would be like.

Since I Lean Towards Arminianism, How Do I Feel About Calvinists?

I thank God for my brothers and sisters in Christ who are Calvinists. Although we disagree on some points of doctrine, we share a common faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are on the same team! I have been greatly blessed by the preaching, teaching, and writing ministries of men like John Piper and Wayne Grudem, both of whom are Calvinist. For me, learning from them is like eating a fish. You eat the meat and throw out the bones. In the case of these men, I have found them serving up huge amounts of delicious, nutritious fish meat which rarely contains more than a few small bones. They are advancing the work of God, and I thank God for them. I feel the same way about less famous Calvinists I know.

It’s fine to discuss issues like this, and they are not unimportant, but I hope Christians will not divide over issues like Arminianism vs. Calvinism. Sadly, some do. I am hoping we can have a discussion that will be peaceful, respectful, and helpful, even as we may strongly disagree on some issues. I also hope that those who are relatively new to this issue will feel free to share thoughts and questions so that the discussion is not dominated by a few of us who have already thought about this a lot.

Giving Thanks Together

Finally, all of us, Calvinists and Arminians alike, should thank God for His great grace, and specifically, that He made a plan for our salvation and uses His great wisdom and power to ensure that plan succeeds.


This OP is a modified version of a post on my blog.

I lean more towards Arminianism.

Here are the Original 5 Articles (or Points) of Traditional Arminianism:
  1. Conditional Election.
  2. Unlimited Atonement.
  3. Total Depravity.
  4. Prevenient Grace.
  5. Conditional Preservation of the Saints.
Five Articles of Remonstrance - Wikipedia

My five points that I would consider Biblical are the following:

#1. Conditional Election (Based upon God’s Foreknowledge).
#2. Conditional Salvation.
#3. Unrestricted Initial Drawing(s) & Illumination(s) by God For Majority; A.K.A. Free Will Involving One’s Choice Towards the Lord, Grace, or Salvation (Note: Christ draws all men unto Himself, and God is not willing that any should perish.) (Note: All men are given an opportunity or opportunities by God to understand the "Offer of the Love of the Truth" so that they are able to receive it, or reject it of their own free will. - See: 2 Thessalonians 2:10.).
#4. Provisional Majority Atonement (Based upon God’s Foreknowledge).
#5. Partial Depravity.
These points are influenced from the 5 points in Arminianism. My 5 points spells the word: CCUPP.

As you are most likely aware, Calvinists believe in:

1. Total Depravity.
2. Unconditional Election.
3. Limited Atonement.
4. Irresistible Grace.
5. Perseverance of the Saints (Similar to OSAS or Once Saved Always Saved).​

This spells TULIP. I believe all five points of TULIP (Calvinism) are unbiblical.
 
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setst777

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Most Christians sooner or later struggle with questions about predestination.

Many Christians don’t like the idea of predestination because it feels unfair. I think the problem is not with predestination itself, but with a lack of understanding about how predestination is related to foreknowledge. Once we understand what the Bible says about predestination and foreknowledge, it is easy to see how predestination is actually a good and encouraging truth which is entirely consistent with God’s justice, love, and even with our free will.

There are two Bible passages which explicitly link God’s foreknowledge with predestination. The first passage is Romans 8:29.

Predestination%2BForeknowledge%2BCalvinism%2BArminianism%2B2.jpg


This passage shows us several things about predestination and foreknowledge:
1. The foreknowledge is knowledge related to people, as indicated by the phrase “those whom.”
2. This foreknowledge in some way logically precedes and leads to predestination.
3. The passage does NOT say that God predestines who will have faith.
4. The passage DOES say that God makes a destiny for us whom He foreknew, and that destiny is to become like Jesus.

The second passage which links foreknowledge and predestination is 1 Peter 1:1-2.

Predestination%2BForeknowledge%2BCalvinism%2BArminianism%2B3.jpg


This passage shows us some truths similar to the truths we saw in Romans:

1. Being “elect” (which pretty much everyone agrees is the same thing as being chosen or predestined) is based on God’s foreknowledge. That’s what “according to the foreknowledge of God the Father” means.
2. The passage does NOT say that God chooses who will have faith.
3. The passage does indicate that election has to do with both sanctification and forgiveness. Sanctification is the process where we become more and more like Jesus, so this is the same thing that Paul described in Romans 8:29 using the words “to be conformed to the image of His Son”.

What Specific Foreknowledge Leads to Predestination?

The Bible does not specifically tell us. We can’t say for sure. But I think it is possible that Paul and Peter were both referring to the fact that God knew ahead of time who, given the right opportunities and circumstances and help from Him, would freely accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

In other words, I don’t think the Bible is teaching that God predetermined who would have faith in Jesus. Rather, I think the Bible is teaching that God knew ahead of time who would have faith in Jesus. Then, based on that knowledge, God made a plan (a destiny, a predestination) for these people that their sins would be forgiven and they would be transformed to become like Jesus, and they would live in glory with God forever.

When you understand predestination in this way, you immediately realize that there is nothing unfair about it. In fact, you see that it is an amazing act of love. Even though we have faith in Jesus, we never could have saved ourselves. We never could have changed ourselves from being sinful people to being people who are like Jesus. But God makes sure this happens for everyone whom He knew would be willing to accept Him.

My destiny is not in doubt, and neither is yours, if you believe in Jesus. Predestination is wonderful! Thank God for predestination! God has chosen our destination, and it’s a really good one!

What Does This Have to Do With Calvinism and Arminianism?

You don’t have to understand the terms “Calvinism” and “Arminianism”. These terms are not in the Bible. However, since many Christians use these terms, you might want to know a little about them. These terms refer to two ways of understanding how predestination works. There’s more to Calvinism and Arminianism than predestination, but predestination is an important part of the issue.

The view I just shared above has a technical name: “conditional election.” This view, which represents my best effort to understand the Bible on this issue, is consistent with Arminianism. That doesn’t mean that I am committed to the full system of beliefs which are related to Arminianism, but it does mean that I lean toward an Arminian understanding of predestination.

Calvinists understand the Bible to teach “unconditional election.” They believe that God chose ahead of time who would have saving faith and who would not, and that God’s choice had nothing at all to do with anything He knew ahead of time about what each person would do or would be like.

Since I Lean Towards Arminianism, How Do I Feel About Calvinists?

I thank God for my brothers and sisters in Christ who are Calvinists. Although we disagree on some points of doctrine, we share a common faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are on the same team! I have been greatly blessed by the preaching, teaching, and writing ministries of men like John Piper and Wayne Grudem, both of whom are Calvinist. For me, learning from them is like eating a fish. You eat the meat and throw out the bones. In the case of these men, I have found them serving up huge amounts of delicious, nutritious fish meat which rarely contains more than a few small bones. They are advancing the work of God, and I thank God for them. I feel the same way about less famous Calvinists I know.

It’s fine to discuss issues like this, and they are not unimportant, but I hope Christians will not divide over issues like Arminianism vs. Calvinism. Sadly, some do. I am hoping we can have a discussion that will be peaceful, respectful, and helpful, even as we may strongly disagree on some issues. I also hope that those who are relatively new to this issue will feel free to share thoughts and questions so that the discussion is not dominated by a few of us who have already thought about this a lot.

Giving Thanks Together

Finally, all of us, Calvinists and Arminians alike, should thank God for His great grace, and specifically, that He made a plan for our salvation and uses His great wisdom and power to ensure that plan succeeds.

This OP is a modified version of a post on my blog.

Well said Mark. That is what the Gospel teaches us.

We see nothing discriminatory or biased within God’s glory as expressed in the Scriptures. God is truly Love, for God genuinely desires all to be saved and to have mercy on all, but grants that salvation to those who will believe in His Son because of the Gospel (John 3:16).

So we see nothing mysterious or unfair about God regarding the Gospel. God is truly just and righteous, just as God commands us to be. God does expect of us what His own glory expresses. And Lord Jesus is the radiance of the Glory of the Father (Hebrews 1:3). We are to follow Him, and so be conformed to His image.

As you expressed so well, the gracious free gift of salvation is something we could never earn or pay for, so the Sovereign God took our sins upon Himself and was punished in our place so that whosoever believes may be saved, conformed to be like His Son (John 3:16).

Blessings
 
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Most Christians sooner or later struggle with questions about predestination.

Many Christians don’t like the idea of predestination because it feels unfair. I think the problem is not with predestination itself, but with a lack of understanding about how predestination is related to foreknowledge. Once we understand what the Bible says about predestination and foreknowledge, it is easy to see how predestination is actually a good and encouraging truth which is entirely consistent with God’s justice, love, and even with our free will.

There are two Bible passages which explicitly link God’s foreknowledge with predestination. The first passage is Romans 8:29.

Predestination%2BForeknowledge%2BCalvinism%2BArminianism%2B2.jpg


This passage shows us several things about predestination and foreknowledge:
1. The foreknowledge is knowledge related to people, as indicated by the phrase “those whom.”
2. This foreknowledge in some way logically precedes and leads to predestination.
3. The passage does NOT say that God predestines who will have faith.
4. The passage DOES say that God makes a destiny for us whom He foreknew, and that destiny is to become like Jesus.

The second passage which links foreknowledge and predestination is 1 Peter 1:1-2.

Predestination%2BForeknowledge%2BCalvinism%2BArminianism%2B3.jpg


This passage shows us some truths similar to the truths we saw in Romans:

1. Being “elect” (which pretty much everyone agrees is the same thing as being chosen or predestined) is based on God’s foreknowledge. That’s what “according to the foreknowledge of God the Father” means.
2. The passage does NOT say that God chooses who will have faith.
3. The passage does indicate that election has to do with both sanctification and forgiveness. Sanctification is the process where we become more and more like Jesus, so this is the same thing that Paul described in Romans 8:29 using the words “to be conformed to the image of His Son”.

What Specific Foreknowledge Leads to Predestination?

The Bible does not specifically tell us. We can’t say for sure. But I think it is possible that Paul and Peter were both referring to the fact that God knew ahead of time who, given the right opportunities and circumstances and help from Him, would freely accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

In other words, I don’t think the Bible is teaching that God predetermined who would have faith in Jesus. Rather, I think the Bible is teaching that God knew ahead of time who would have faith in Jesus. Then, based on that knowledge, God made a plan (a destiny, a predestination) for these people that their sins would be forgiven and they would be transformed to become like Jesus, and they would live in glory with God forever.

When you understand predestination in this way, you immediately realize that there is nothing unfair about it. In fact, you see that it is an amazing act of love. Even though we have faith in Jesus, we never could have saved ourselves. We never could have changed ourselves from being sinful people to being people who are like Jesus. But God makes sure this happens for everyone whom He knew would be willing to accept Him.

My destiny is not in doubt, and neither is yours, if you believe in Jesus. Predestination is wonderful! Thank God for predestination! God has chosen our destination, and it’s a really good one!

What Does This Have to Do With Calvinism and Arminianism?

You don’t have to understand the terms “Calvinism” and “Arminianism”. These terms are not in the Bible. However, since many Christians use these terms, you might want to know a little about them. These terms refer to two ways of understanding how predestination works. There’s more to Calvinism and Arminianism than predestination, but predestination is an important part of the issue.

The view I just shared above has a technical name: “conditional election.” This view, which represents my best effort to understand the Bible on this issue, is consistent with Arminianism. That doesn’t mean that I am committed to the full system of beliefs which are related to Arminianism, but it does mean that I lean toward an Arminian understanding of predestination.

Calvinists understand the Bible to teach “unconditional election.” They believe that God chose ahead of time who would have saving faith and who would not, and that God’s choice had nothing at all to do with anything He knew ahead of time about what each person would do or would be like.

Since I Lean Towards Arminianism, How Do I Feel About Calvinists?

I thank God for my brothers and sisters in Christ who are Calvinists. Although we disagree on some points of doctrine, we share a common faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are on the same team! I have been greatly blessed by the preaching, teaching, and writing ministries of men like John Piper and Wayne Grudem, both of whom are Calvinist. For me, learning from them is like eating a fish. You eat the meat and throw out the bones. In the case of these men, I have found them serving up huge amounts of delicious, nutritious fish meat which rarely contains more than a few small bones. They are advancing the work of God, and I thank God for them. I feel the same way about less famous Calvinists I know.

It’s fine to discuss issues like this, and they are not unimportant, but I hope Christians will not divide over issues like Arminianism vs. Calvinism. Sadly, some do. I am hoping we can have a discussion that will be peaceful, respectful, and helpful, even as we may strongly disagree on some issues. I also hope that those who are relatively new to this issue will feel free to share thoughts and questions so that the discussion is not dominated by a few of us who have already thought about this a lot.

Giving Thanks Together

Finally, all of us, Calvinists and Arminians alike, should thank God for His great grace, and specifically, that He made a plan for our salvation and uses His great wisdom and power to ensure that plan succeeds.


This OP is a modified version of a post on my blog.

Calvinism is saying that God is choosing to save some and not to save others. However, it’s common basic morality to realize that God does not force some to be saved and others to not be saved because we know by life that the highest form of love is not forced. If a man forces his love upon a woman that is called rape or a love that is unwanted. A man cannot force a woman to marry him and expect her to love him in return. Love is when two parties both agree to love one another.

Amos 3:3 says, “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?”

I don't believe Calvinism is in line with God's goodness or character and or fair justice. It would be like a coast guard saving everyone on a lifeboat except for you and your family and when you ask him why he is not saving you and your family, he says.... “No reason, I just do not want to save you.” “You should be thankful that I am saving these other people.”

Or it would be like a dog owner who kicks his dog across the room like a football because it has an uncontrollable pooping problem (because it is sick) whereby the dog poops on his master’s nice white carpets. So instead of the master taking his dog to the vet and trying to help him, he just decides to kick the poor animal and to punish it (When the animal has no control over it's pooping function) (i.e. the Non-Elect that He could save but simply chooses to not save them.).

That's kind of how I see Calvinism. For it is called UNconditional Election. Meaning, God is not electing anyone based upon any conditions found within the individual. So God is simply creating many for the express purpose to be tortured for all eternity. That is their destiny that they cannot escape and God has chosen this only path for them. God wants many lives to suffer for all eternity and we should just be thankful that He saves a few when He has the power to save them all (But He simply doesn't). This does not sound like the loving God of the Bible (Especially when we read 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16, and John 11:35).

Although many Calvinists will claim that this is a caricature of what they truly believe, they never really explain to me how it is a caritcature. These same Calvinists will even tell me that God predetermines sin and evil. Even John Piper (a popular Calvinist) believes God predetermines sin and evil. Some Calvinists believe that aborted babies go to hell. This is what is scary about Calvinism. Yet, many will protest that the Bible teaches these things and we Non-Calvinists are wrong for imposing our morality on the Bible. Morality can be illustrated by real life; In fact, we learn that the Canaanite woman made a parable or real life example on how the dogs can eat from the master’s table to relate to a spiritual truth that Jesus was referring to by way of a parable. But Calvinism cannot be made into a parable or real life example. That’s because it is not logical and not consistent with the Scriptures. But the Scriptures say, “Come let us reason together…” (Isaiah 1:18).

Also, Calvinists believe that they are saved by a regeneration that proceeds being saved by faith in the gospel. The gospel is believing that Christ died for our sins, he was buried, and He was risen three days later (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is the gospel that we are to receive and stand upon according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Yet, Calvinists believe they are saved prior to the gospel of our salvation. Some Calvinists will say that Calvinism is the gospel. Some Calvinists believe that Non-Calvinists are trying to save themselves by a work in the fact that they choosing Jesus Christ as their Savior by faith. This is why some Calvinists hate free will; For these types of Calvinists think that our decision in choosing Christ is a form of Works Salvationism.

But faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
 
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An example of God electing according to foreknowledge would be Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8. God knows who will worship the beast in the future, and these types do not even have their names written in the book of life since the foundation of the world. Meaning, God did not force them to be a certain way against their own free will. Those who worship the beast in the future do so of their own free will or accord. But God simply knows their free will choice in their decision to worship the beast and God deems this a kind of sin that is not redeemable by Christ’s atonement (Whereby their name was never in the book of life). This is unlike the rest of mankind, though. The rest of mankind throughout history had their sins PROVISIONALLY paid for as a way escape; That if they accept God’s free love gift by faith and they remain faithful to that gift, the atonement is then applied personally to their lives whereby they would be set free. This free love gift is Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son (John 3:16). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice (provisional atonement) for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). But this would be the majority of mankind in human history and not those who will worship the beast in the future. The free will offer is for the majority of men and women throughout all of human history.

God declares the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). I believe that is what God is doing when He elects according to His foreknowledge.

Side Note:

The best way to describe the Provisional Atonement is like a man who paid the price to pay off your debts by his handing you a check to be debt free; But it is up to you to receive the check, deposit it into your checking account, and pay off those you are in debt to; It's a gift, but like all good gifts in life, you have to receive the gift and use it properly to be of any benefit). Jesus provided an atonement, but it is up to us to receive it to personally apply to our lives by having a proper faith. Men will remain as sinners if they reject the Provisional Atonement of Jesus Christ. Jesus provided a provisional atonement (salvation) in dealing with sin as a way of escape for mankind to be saved through accepting Him (Who is the gift).
 
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@Mark Corbett

Romans 9 is the only chapter in the Bible that sounds like Calvinism if one were to read it at a glance out of context (i.e. a surface reading read from a Calvinistic perspective or lens).

However, Romans 9 is not isolated from the rest of the book of Romans.
The whole point of Romans 9 was written with the Jew in mind in how they were trying to earn salvation by “Works ALONE Salvationism” (without God's grace through Jesus Christ), and how they found favor with God based on their nationality (in that they were God's people, Israel).

Romans 9:6-8 is a refutation of the Israelite's false belief of salvific nationalism.
Romans 9:9-16 is a refutation of the Israelite's false belief of “Works Alone Salvationism” (without Jesus and His grace). The passage also adds in saying that salvation is by him who calls [upon the name of the Lord Jesus] (Compare Romans 9:11 with Romans 10:13).
Romans 9:17-18 sets up the dilemma for the Israelite in being saved by God's grace and mercy on His terms. Pharaoh was hardened on God's terms in that we know that a person's heart is hardened by their own sin. For a believer who sins and hardens their heart, they can then fall into unbelief and depart from the living God (See: Hebrews 3:12-15). Sin is the breaking of the Law or commandment (1 John 3:4). The Israelite was hardening their heart against God on account of their sin or disobedience to the command to believe in Jesus (1 John 3:23).
Romans 9:19 is the Israelite complaining about how can God find fault because they believe they are doing God's will as an Israelite.
Romans 9:20 A voice answers the Israelite and criticizes the Israelite. The voice asks a question from the Israelite's perspective, “Why have you made me this way [i.e. as an Israelite, a keeper of the Law]?”
When reading Romans 9:21-23, we have to keep in mind that God elects based on His foreknowledge (His future foreknowledge of what they are going to do) (1 Peter 1:1-2). The language present in this passage is reminiscent of Jeremiah 18 about how God will form the clay based upon how a nation does not hear his voice, He will turn back on the good He would do unto them. God warns Jerusalem and Judah that He frames evil them against unless they repent. Meaning, based on what we do, a person will fall into one of two categories. The resurrection of life, and the resurrection of the damned (i.e. the vessels of wrath and mercy). God will render to every man according to his deeds (See: Romans 2:6).

Romans 9:30-32 clarifies (recaps) what was being said:

“What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;” (Romans 9:30-32).

“...rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.” (Romans 11:11).

So Romans 9 is really not talking about Calvinistic Unconditional Election.
Even the word “call” used in Romans 9 in reference to God calling does not prove that God is forcing anything upon a person. For many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).
 
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Many Calvinists love to quote John 6:44 as proof of Calvinism.

However, John 6:45 says, “It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”

In other words: Every man (the Jew) who has HEARD (listened to God through obeying God's commands) and has learned of the Father (loving others - Matthew 5:43-48) comes unto me (i.e. Jesus).

John 6:45 is clear in that this is not in reference to unbelieving Jews or unbelieving Gentiles. This is in reference to those Jews who had a relationship with God because they heard and learned of the Father. THESE are the ones who are drawn by the Father to come to Jesus. Not just anybody!

Side Note:

As for the phrase, It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.: This is in reference to Isaiah 54:13-14 that says:

And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.” (Isaiah 54:13-14).

Meaning, this is in reference to God's children who are established in righteousness (i.e. in seeking God's grace, and in living holy unto the Lord). So John 6:45 is in reference to Jews who have a relationship with God the Father. This is the context of John 6:44. So this is not some kind of forced thing going on (i.e. anti-free will) involving those who do not believe when it says draw. John 6:44 is referring to how no Jew can come to Jesus without first hearing and learning from the Father beforehand (John 6:45).
 
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