Preachers with "Doctor" in their title.

[Alive_Again]

<However - and this might just be my experience - but I've been quiet disappointed a number of times with those I've come across who have studied to get their doctorate properly (I'm thinking specifically of fields like Biblical studies,

Many people weren't even saved before they went to seminary or other training. Others were only born again, and went to school. After getting baptized in the Holy Spirit, they say that the knowledge is useful, but they don't minister out of it because they Lord ministers from the spirit, not the head. Head knowledge is useful, particularly in understanding historic backgrounds, knowledge of biblical languages, etc., but can be an obstacle and something the Lord has to "unlearn" you of to work effectively in you. The precepts of the Lord are imparted to the spirit first. If you learn them from the head, you don't really know them experientially, and they are only theory until you've walked in them.

Many people are suspicious of Dr. titles, since that points to expertise gained through the head and not the Holy Spirit. That is judging unrighteously, because righteous judgment is not from what one sees or hears in the natural. It is given by the Holy Spirit. It seems in practicality, those with Dr. titles on the airwaves have less an anointing and they don't impart life, however intelluctually stimulating they sometimes can be.

 

[Arturias]

If they got the title to gain the respect of men, or as a fulfillment of personal pride, it is rooted in sin, regardless of the source of the title. If someone wears the title because it was a result of them following the Lords leading in them fulfilling Gods call on their life, I wouldn't fault them regardless of the source of the title.

But I can't judge a man's heart, so I'll ignore the title and focus on whether or not their actions line up with their words, and match that with what the Bible says, and see if it bears witness to what the Spirit says to me about them. If that all lines up, they have my respect regardless of any title or lack of title.

I know a man that wears the title "Apostle". Sounds kinda pretentious, but it was thrust upon him, and he walks out an apostolic calling in his life, so it's fine by me.

I wear the title "Geek" in my family because I've been working with computers as a trade for almost 20 years. I figure that's as good as any other title.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm doing a certificate in Christian studies from a Bible college - so I'll soon be certified!

I know there are places that tell you to click on a link, pay some money and get a degree, or title of Rev. I had an e mail once, telling me how easy it was to be ordained.
I have been tempted - or would be if I had the money - simply because there are times when it seems even the church is more concerned with bits of paper than with your heart/faith/experience. But I think they are just ways of making money out of people who are so insecure they need external things to give them status.

I don't need to be a mere doctor - I'm a child of the king.

That said, people who study hard for doctorates, deserve them.

 

[Faulty]

What is all that, is it accredited, is it considered legitimate?

I don't know about all that now. I checked their website and found this about their giving of honorary degrees:

"The honorary degree is typically awarded to outstanding individuals who have made significant contributions to Christianity or to the awarding college. International Seminary awards no more than five honorary degrees per year. The selection process is extremely tedious and candidates must be nominated by a member of the Alumni or Board of Regents. The honorary degree is normally awarded during commencement"

So, it's a fairly generic description of their process.

As far as accreditation is concerned, the website states they are not regionally accredited, but classes from their school have been accepted by other schools which are regionally accredited.

They also mention they are members with the Accrediting Commission International for Schools, Colleges, and Theological Seminaries and they haven't received any "formal" complaints about the seminary.

Also, they say, "International Seminary is also listed in the Directory of Postsecondary Institutions produced by the Postsecondary Education Statistics Division, National Center for Education Statistics (1989-90), U.S. Department of Education (volume 1, page 92)."

So, they are recognized as a "postsecondary institution". Which is something I suppose.

Is it legitimate? Well, I suppose that depends on who you ask. If I knew some of their grads (and I don't) then I'd have an idea of the type of clergy they produce, then I could give an opinion, but I can't.

 

[WileyCoyote]

All I know is if I busted my butt in Seminary to earn a Doctor of Divinity and some guy who took cheap, watered down versions of the same classes I did from some unaccredited degree mill went around calling himself "Doctor", I would be pretty darn offended. I wouldn't call him Doctor. I wouldn't even call him a Medical Assistant.

 

[zaksmummy]

I am against the use of 'Dr' when those using the title haven't gone through the proper process usually needed to get it.

However - and this might just be my experience - but I've been quiet disappointed a number of times with those I've come across who have studied to get their doctorate properly (I'm thinking specifically of fields like Biblical studies, theology, philosophy and Christian Apologetics here.) I guess I thought having to go through the strenuous process of getting a doctorate in a subject would offer some guarantee of intellectual imagination and rigour, but that doesn't seem to always be the case. I must admit I am easily swayed by the Dr. before someone's name, but time and time again I've been disappointed; by books, lectures, debates. Even the writing style itself has been quite limp in a number of Christian books I've read by those with a proper Dr. before their name.

I have a friend who did well in Biblical studies at a respected secular institution, and he is now finishing his doctorate. I am amazed at the stuff he hasn't heard of, and he himself has shared that he is surprised at the limited vision of those studying with him. They know a few specific fields in great detail, but I guess even a doctorate can't guarantee breadth of vision and a competent understanding of logic, history and culture in general.

The problem is that when you are deciding what to do for your thesis you have to pick one small area, so you will know a lot about that area, but nothing about anything else.

This happens no matter what area you choose to study, not just in theology.

 

[Strong in Him]

The problem is that when you are deciding what to do for your thesis you have to pick one small area, so you will know a lot about that area, but nothing about anything else.

This happens no matter what area you choose to study, not just in theology.

Yes but don't you have to have an M.A in a subject before you can go onto a doctorate, and a B.A before that?
Even if your doctorate was in something quite specialised like - oh I don't know, the dead sea scrolls - surely having a B.A and M.A in theology would indicate a certain level of religious knowledge?

 

[lismore]

All I know is if I busted my butt in Seminary

You don't need to flagellate, just pass exams!

Passing exams is a skill in itself, not necessarily related to your knowledge of the subject.

 

[Mark from Montana]

I am so disappointed in how hard it is to track down the academic credentials of many Christian ministers. It is also disappointing how deceptive some Christian organizations are in concealing that a degree is non-academic rather than earned. David Jeremiah identifies himself as a "Doctor" many times on his broadcasts and on one page in one of his books he refered to himself as a "Doctor" eight times. On his bio page he lists his undergrad degree from Cedarville and his Masters from Dallas (which he earned). Then he states he completed his graduate work at Grace and was granted a Doctorate from Cedarville. It was not mentioned that Cedarville does not offer doctorate programs or that the degree was an honorary degree granted from the college where his father was an administrator for many years. Also there is a convention center at Cedarville humbly named...you guessed it..."The Jeremiah Center."

 

[Mark from Montana]

.

 

[Alive_Again]

<David Jeremiah identifies himself as a "Doctor" many times on his broadcasts and on one page in one of his books he refered to himself as a "Doctor" eight times... Also there is a convention center at Cedarville humbly named...you guessed it..."The Jeremiah Center."

I won't judge David, and for all we know, others named the "Jeremiah Center", but it's easy for pride to enter in (enter fig leaves).

You can become a colonel in the U.S. Militia (it used to be $10 I think) if you want some fig leaves. Legally put Colonel in front of your name. Be admired by all. Pretty sad, isn't it?

I think God hands out the kudos where appropriate. We don't have to go by our ministry office title either if we have one, except for the sake of order. We're all supposed to esteem others better than ourselves. I used to call all of my friends "Dr. ..." Great fun.

Having said that, my brother has his doctorate. He's not a medical doctor, and we don't call him "doctor".

 

[Seeking Him]

I don't know about all that now. I checked their website and found this about their giving of honorary degrees:

"The honorary degree is typically awarded to outstanding individuals who have made significant contributions to Christianity or to the awarding college. International Seminary awards no more than five honorary degrees per year. The selection process is extremely tedious and candidates must be nominated by a member of the Alumni or Board of Regents. The honorary degree is normally awarded during commencement"

So, it's a fairly generic description of their process.

As far as accreditation is concerned, the website states they are not regionally accredited, but classes from their school have been accepted by other schools which are regionally accredited.

They also mention they are members with the Accrediting Commission International for Schools, Colleges, and Theological Seminaries and they haven't received any "formal" complaints about the seminary.

Also, they say, "International Seminary is also listed in the Directory of Postsecondary Institutions produced by the Postsecondary Education Statistics Division, National Center for Education Statistics (1989-90), U.S. Department of Education (volume 1, page 92)."

So, they are recognized as a "postsecondary institution". Which is something I suppose.

Is it legitimate? Well, I suppose that depends on who you ask. If I knew some of their grads (and I don't) then I'd have an idea of the type of clergy they produce, then I could give an opinion, but I can't.

Thanks for the info Faulty.

 

[Seeking Him]

Many ministers, like Creflo Dollar, have been given "honorary degrees" from Oral Roberts University.