Futurist Only Pre-trib statements in ancient Christian writings

[Biblewriter]

The very oldest Christian commentary on Bible prophecy of any significant length that has survived to our day is the last twelve chapters of “Against Heresies,” by Irenaeus. (There were older such commentaries, but all of them were either short or have been lost.) This one is thought to have been published between 186 and 188 A.D., and says:

“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons ‘as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance—in fact, as nothing;’ so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.’ For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 29, paragraph 1, From “Ante-Nicean Fathers,” ed. Alexander Roberts, D.D. and James Donaldson, D.D., Edinburgh, 1884.)

Here we find a clear teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture. But Irenaeus also wrote:

“For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist, and the destruction of all nations under his rule;” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 35, paragraph 1, from the source previously cited.)

Here we see this same ancient writer just as explicitly saying that “the resurrection of the just” “takes place after the coming of Antichrist.” This appears to flatly contradict his other statement. But is this correct? First, we need to notice that Irenaeus did not say that “the resurrection of the just” takes place after the reign of Antichrist. He only said it “takes place after the coming of Antichrist, and the destruction of all nations under his rule.” To see the significance of this, we need to consider another statement from this same ancient document:

“But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom.” (“Against Heresies,” Book V, chapter 30, paragraph 4, from the source previously cited.)

Here we find first, a distinct statement that Antichrist would reign for three years and six months. But also a distinct statement that this three years and six months would be after “this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world.” Thus we see that Irenaeus placing “the resurrection of the just” “after the coming of Antichrist, and the destruction of all nations under his rule,” was not saying the rapture would be after the three and a half year reign of Antichrist. Rather, he placed the rapture at the beginning of that three and a half year reign. That is, he was saying that the time of “tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be” was the three and a half year reign of Antichrist.

Irenaeus very clearly put the church in at least the first part of the time of Antichrist, as we can see in the following:

“‘And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet, but shall receive power as if kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords and the King of kings.’ It is manifest, therefore, that of these [potentates], he who is to come shall slay three, and subject the remainder to his power, and that he shall be himself the eighth among them. And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord.” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 26, paragraph 1, from the source previously cited.)

This is the only place Irenaeus used the word “church” in regard to these events, other that the place where he explicitly said “the Church shall be suddenly caught up” before the “tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” But he used the word “we,” which certainly seems to have the same meaning, here:

“But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit.” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 30, paragraph 4, from the source previously cited.)

These last two statements make it very clear that Irenaeus placed the rapture at least after “the coming of Antichrist.” We have already noticed that in statements about events before the three and a half year reign of Antichrist, he used the words “the church” and “we.” But in his statements about persecutions during the three and a half year reign of Antichrist, he changed this terminology. We remember that in his statement about the church being “suddenly caught up,” he called the tribulation “the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” He used the term “the righteous” again when he spoke of the faithful in that time in this statement:

“For that image which was set up by Nebuchadnezzar had indeed a height of sixty cubits, while the breadth was six cubits; on account of which Ananias, Azarias, and Misaël, when they did not worship it, were cast into a furnace of fire, pointing out prophetically, by what happened to them, the wrath against the righteous which shall arise towards the [time of the] end. For that image, taken as a whole, was a prefiguring of this man’s coming, decreeing that he should undoubtedly himself alone be worshipped by all men.” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 29, paragraph 2, in the source previously cited.)

We remember that Irenaeus used this same term in speaking of the beginning of the kingdom, saying, “bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom.” He also used a second term for these faithful ones during that time, calling them “saints” in the following statements:

“Daniel too, looking forward to the end of the last kingdom, i.e., the ten last kings, amongst whom the kingdom of those men shall be partitioned, and upon whom the son of perdition shall come, declares that ten horns shall spring from the beast, and that another little horn shall arise in the midst of them, and that three of the former shall be rooted up before his face. He says: ‘And, behold, eyes were in this horn as the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things, and his look was more stout than his fellows. I was looking, and this horn made war against the saints, and prevailed against them, until the Ancient of days came and gave judgment to the saints of the most high God, and the time came, and the saints obtained the kingdom.’ Then, further on, in the interpretation of the vision, there was said to him: ‘The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall excel all other kingdoms, and devour the whole earth, and tread it down, and cut it in pieces. And its ten horns are ten kings which shall arise; and after them shall arise another, who shall surpass in evil deeds all that were before him, and shall overthrow three kings; and he shall speak words against the most high God, and wear out the saints of the most high God, and shall purpose to change times and laws; and [everything] shall be given into his hand until a time of times and a half time,’ that is, for three years and six months, during which time, when he comes, he shall reign over the earth.” (“Against Heresies,” Book V, chapter 25, paragraph 3, in the source previously cited.)

“And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: ‘And in the midst of the week,’ he says, ‘the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.’ Now three years and six months constitute the half-week.” (“Against Heresies,” Book V, chapter 25, paragraph 4, in the source previously cited.)

We need to notice that both of these statements are about the three and a half year reign of Antichrist, and thus speak of a time after Irenaeus placed the “resurrection of the just.”

Why are the exact words Irenaeus used significant? Because a doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture requires words like “the church” or “we” in statements about the godly during events up to and through the time “the Church shall be suddenly caught up.” But when speaking of times after the rapture, the proper (and scriptural) terms for godly people are “the righteous” or “saints.” Again, the doctrine requires a different term for those who are resurrected at the time of the rapture, for that resurrection includes Old Testament believers who were thus not members of the church. And this is exactly what Irenaeus did, calling the resurrection by its scriptural name of “the resurrection of the just.”

Now some will want to discount any claim that Irenaeus was intentionally using well selected terminology in these statements. But he used the same precision in his comments about recognizing the Antichrist when he appeared. For, as we have already noticed, when he was speaking of true believers he said “But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him” But when he was speaking of men who might be deceived by the Antichrist, he stuck strictly with the scriptural terminology by referring to them as “those,” “these,” “they,” and “them,” as we see in the following statements:

“Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against.” (“Against Heresies,” Book V, chapter 30, end of paragraph 1, in the source previously cited.)

“These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation.” (“Against Heresies,” Book V, chapter 30, beginning of paragraph 2, in the source previously cited.)

Thus we see that Irenaeus used precise terminology that clearly distinguished between these two groups. He again used the scriptural words “those,” along with “ye” and “he,” rather than his own words, when speaking of the need for the inhabitants of the land of Judea to flee when they see the abomination of desolation.

“But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be.” (“Against Heresies,” Book V, chapter 25, paragraph 2, in the source previously cited)

Finally, Irenaeus made one more statement that touches this matter, saying:
“Has the Word come for the ruin and for the resurrection of many? For the ruin, certainly, of those who do not believe Him, to whom also He has threatened a greater damnation in the judgment-day than that of Sodom and Gomorrah; but for the resurrection of believers, and those who do the will of His Father in heaven.” (“Against Heresies,” Book V, chapter 27, paragraph 1, in the source previously cited.)

In this passage Irenaeus implies a simultaneous judgment-day for unbelievers and resurrection of believers. Some will assume that this proves he was not saying that the rapture will be before the tribulation. But this is in full accord with the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture. For there will be people who turn to God during the time of the tribulation, and they will be persecuted and slain for their faith. These will be resurrected at approximately the same time as when Christ comes in power and glory to judge the world. (The scriptures do not say their resurrection happens when He comes. But Revelation 20:4 says “they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” So we know that their resurrection takes place at least approximately the same time as He comes.

So now we are faced with two choices. We can either assume that Irenaeus was exceedingly careless as to his wording, and simply did not mean what he said. Or we can assume that the precision of his wording was not a mere coincidence, but that he chose his exact words carefully and with intent. In that case, we are forced to conclude that Irenaeus meant exactly what he said when he wrote:

"And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.’"

 

[thecolorsblend]

That is an interesting find. Good job!

Of course, St. Irenaeus wrote some other things in that very same volume. An abbreviated version is in my sig but the longer quote is...

But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition.

Here we find a clear teaching of the primacy of Rome.

Interesting, yes?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Biblewriter]

That is an interesting find. Good job!

Of course, St. Irenaeus wrote some other things in that very same volume. An abbreviated version is in my sig but the longer quote is...

Here we find a clearing of the primacy of Rome.

Interesting, yes?

I personally think that this is the sole reason the medieval monks preserved the works of Irnaeus, for his eschatology was plainly and extremely different from what they believed.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Biblewriter]

Look at what Babylon is called in Rev. 18:2.
There is the switch....God is about to punish Babylon and His people are told to leave so as not to receive of her plagues.

It is utterly impossible for the rapture to happen before the great tribulation is over.

The point of this particular thread is not whether or not the doctrine of a rapture before the great tribulation is correct. It is solely about the fact that this doctrine was indeed taught in ancient times. Please do not continue with off topic posts.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Biblewriter]

The next ancient pre-tribulational statement we come to is a late third century commentary on the Revelation, which said concerning Revelation 6:14, “‘And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up.’”] For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away.” Then, concerning Revelation 15:1, it said “‘And I saw another great and wonderful sign, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is completed the indignation of God.’] For the wrath of God always strikes the obstinate people with seven plagues, that is, perfectly, as it is said in Leviticus; and these shall be in the last time, when the Church shall have gone out of the midst.” (“Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John,” by Victorinus.) The date this was written is unknown, but Victorinus is thought to have flourished around 270 AD, and to have died in 303 AD.

These statements are plainly pre-tribulational. For he foresaw the church “taken away” in Revelation 6, long before the time of the Antichrist in Revelation 13, and he explicitly mentioned that “the Church shall have gone out of the midst” during the seven last plagues of Revelation 15.

Many have argued that this could not be the actual meaning of Victorinus, because the last two chapters of the commonly circulated version of this ancient commentary very clearly state otherwise. But these people are unaware of the fact that this is an edited version of what Victorinus wrote, and that the editor plainly stated that, “From the beginning of the book to the sign of the cross, we have corrected things which are the corruptions of inexperience of scribes. Know that from there to the end of the book is added.” (Jerome's letter to Anatolius, which is the prologue to his edition of Victorinus' commentary.” You an read the entire commentary, as originally written, at http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/v/victorinus-of-petau.html)

Again, the following statement by John of Crysostem is evidence of the pre-tribulation rapture having been taught in early Christian centuries.

“2 Thessalonians ii. 6–9
“‘And now ye know that which restraineth, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season. For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of His mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of His coming: even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan.’
“One may naturally enquire, what is that which withholdeth, and after that would know, why Paul expresses it so obscurely. What then is it that withholdeth, that is, hindereth him from being revealed? Some indeed say, the grace of the Spirit, but others the Roman empire, to whom I most of all accede. Wherefore? Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him.” (Homilies on 2 Thessalonians, Homily IV, by John Chrysostom. This is thought to have been written sometime between the years 395 and 407. from Volume XIII of “Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers,” series 2, as translated by James Tweed and edited by Philip Schaff, as found in the American edition edited by Phillip Schaff , and as found online at Christian Classics Ethereal Library. )

Although it is strangely stated, this appears to be a saying that some in the day of John of Crysostom were saying that the restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2:6 is the Holy Spirit. As this is one of the key elements of the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture, this appears to be evidence that some were teaching this doctrine around the beginning of the fifth century. This is all the more important historically, because the man who mentioned this doctrine did not himself believe it.

 

[Biblewriter]

Finally, (in regards to truly ancient Christian writers personally known to myself,) there is an ancient sermon titled “On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World.” The age and author of this sermon is unknown, but it is known to have been in Church libraries before the year 800. Most of the surviving copies of this sermon say it was written by Ephraem, but one says its author was Isadore of Sevelle. Based on events the sermon said were impending, various scholars have estimated its date from as early as 373 to as late as 627. Paul J. Alexander gave what seems to be the most satisfactory analysis of its date, concluding that the original had to have been written in or near the fourth century, but that copiers had added other material sometime around the seventh century. (“Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition,” by Paul J. Alexander, University of California Press, 1985, pg. 147.)

As scholars do not believe the unknown author could have been the famous Ephraem the Syrian, (who is also known a Ephraem of Nisbis) they call this unknown author Pseudo-Ephraem. This sermon was divided into ten sections, and said in section 2:

“Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: ‘Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!’ For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.” (“On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World.” Author unknown, but called pseudo-Ephraem, section 2. From “The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition,” by Paul J. Alexander, ed. By Dorthy deF. Abrahamse, Berkeley: University of California Press, 1985, 2.10. Cited there from “Abhandlungen und Predigten aus den zwei letzten Jahrhunderten des kirchlichen Altertums und dem Anfang des Mittelaters,” C. P. Caspari, ed. Briefe, Christiania, 1890, 208-20.)

It would be difficult to make a more clear statement of the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture. But even so, some still deny that it was pre-tribulational, because of an interpretation they put on section 10 of the same sermon, which said:

“And when the three and a half years have been completed, the time of the Antichrist, through which he will have seduced the world, after the resurrection of the two prophets, in the hour which the world does not know, and on the day which the enemy of son of perdition does not know, will come the sign of the Son of Man, and coming forward the Lord shall appear with great power and much majesty, with the sign of the wood of salvation going before him, and also even with all the powers of the heavens with the whole chorus of the saints, with those who bear the sign of the holy cross upon their shoulders, as the angelic trumpet precedes him, which shall sound and declare: Arise, O sleeping ones, arise, meet Christ, because his hour of judgment has come! Then Christ shall come and the enemy shall be thrown into confusion, and the Lord shall destroy him by the spirit of his mouth.” (“On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World,” section 10. From the volume previously cited.)

These people say the rapture is in this section, instead of section 2, because of the words “Arise, O sleeping ones, arise, meet Christ, because his hour of judgment has come!” But this is a serious error. Are we to think this unknown writer was unfamiliar with John 5:24, where Jesus said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.” The “hour of judgment” is not for the saints of God. It is for sinners. These people would not have made this error if they had noticed who this section says will be with the Lord as He comes. It is “all the powers of the heavens with the whole chorus of the saints, with those who bear the sign of the holy cross upon their shoulders.” Thus we see the previously raptured saints of God coming with the Lord when He comes to judge the world. This was stated twice over, first calling them “the whole chorus of the saints,” and then “those who bear the sign of the holy cross upon their shoulders.” It was completely consistent to have the rapture before “the whole chorus of the saints” coming with the Lord when He comes “with great power and much majesty” for “his hour of judgement.”

Finally, these same people also claim that the sermon has the church still in the world at the time of the Antichrist, because the sermon also says, at the end of section 8:

“But those who wander through the deserts, fleeing from the face of the serpent, bend their knees to God, just as lambs to the adders of their mothers, being sustained by the salvation of the Lord, and while wandering in states of desertion, they eat herbs.” (“On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World,” section 8. From the volume previously cited.)

But this argument is simply based on another error. These people interpret every reference to people turning to God to mean the church. But those who believe that the rapture will be before the tribulation have always taught that some will repent and turn to God after the church has been removed. We remember that Irenaeus had referred to these with the words that this tribulation “is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” So the fact that the sermon has some bending their knees to God as they flee from the face of the serpent does not in any way prove, or even imply, that it was teaching that the church would still be in the world at that time.

So there is no reason to even question that the unknown writer of this sermon actually meant what he so plainly said, that “all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”

 

[Biblewriter]

I have posted these explicit statements of truly ancient writers, with precise citations of their exact sources, and with detailed proofs of why these doctrines are actually pre-tribulational, to permanently disprove the false claim that no ancient writer taught a rapture before the great tribulation. They are not posted with any thought that their antiquity adds anything to any alleged authority that might hols over men's minds, put purely and only to prove, beyond the possibility of rational debate, that this doctrine was indeed taught in ancient times.

This doctrine was not only taught in ancient times. It was also taught in medieval times, and by more than two dozen writers in the sixteenth, seventeenth, and eighteenth centuries, as well as by two English nineteenth century writers whose work was published long before John Nelson Darby, or his alleged source Edward Irving, published anything, and also long before the work of Francisco Ribera, who some claim to be the original source of this doctrine, had been published in English.

But all these other examples, many of which have been collected by myself, and many others by William Watson in his book, "Dispensationalism Before Darby," would be off the subject in a thread about ancient church doctrine.

 

[Hidden In Him]

“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons ‘as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance—in fact, as nothing;’ so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.’ For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 29, paragraph 1, From “Ante-Nicean Fathers,” ed. Alexander Roberts, D.D. and James Donaldson, D.D., Edinburgh, 1884.)

I think you're mincing words a little too much, Biblewriter, though I admire the work you put into this post.

My problem with your position is that this paragraph teaches otherwise, and here is why:

so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold.

When properly read in context, these words are about the persecution of the church. He means that the world will persecute the true church, and thus be likened to combustable straw which refines the gold.

This is followed by these words:

And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this...

From what? From being refined in the fires of persecution is the natural reading. He then once again uses the word "this" after citing the quote about the tribulation, referring again to the same thing:

And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this... For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”

How will they overcome? By loving not their lives unto death (Revelation 2:10-11).

 

[Biblewriter]

I think you're mincing words a little too much, Biblewriter, though I admire the work you put into this post.

My problem with your position is that this paragraph teaches otherwise, and here is why:


When properly read in context, these words are about the persecution of the church. He means that the world will persecute the true church, and thus be likened to combustable straw which refines the gold.

This is followed by these words:


From what? From being refined in the fires of persecution is the natural reading. He then once again uses the word "this" after citing the quote about the tribulation, referring again to the same thing:


How will they overcome? By loving not their lives unto death (Revelation 2:10-11).

This answer is based n an error I have already addressed in this thread. That is the assumption that all mention of people who are "righteous" mean "the church." That is why I stressed the fact that Irenaeus clearly differeniated between "the church," referring to it with words such as "we" and "us," from these other believers, calling them "they," "them," or "those."

 

[Hidden In Him]

This answer is based n an error I have already addressed in this thread. That is the assumption that all mention of people who are "righteous" mean "the church." That is why I stressed the fact that Irenaeus clearly differeniated between "the church," referring to it with words such as "we" and "us," from these other believers, calling them "they," "them," or "those."

I understood you. I'm saying you are cheating the context of the passage, and that it's a very unnatural reading.

 

[sdowney717]

The next ancient pre-tribulational statement we come to is a late third century commentary on the Revelation, which said concerning Revelation 6:14, “‘And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up.’”] For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away.” Then, concerning Revelation 15:1, it said “‘And I saw another great and wonderful sign, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is completed the indignation of God.’] For the wrath of God always strikes the obstinate people with seven plagues, that is, perfectly, as it is said in Leviticus; and these shall be in the last time, when the Church shall have gone out of the midst.” (“Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John,” by Victorinus.) The date this was written is unknown, but Victorinus is thought to have flourished around 270 AD, and to have died in 303 AD.

These statements are plainly pre-tribulational. For he foresaw the church “taken away” in Revelation 6, long before the time of the Antichrist in Revelation 13, and he explicitly mentioned that “the Church shall have gone out of the midst” during the seven last plagues of Revelation 15.

Many have argued that this could not be the actual meaning of Victorinus, because the last two chapters of the commonly circulated version of this ancient commentary very clearly state otherwise. But these people are unaware of the fact that this is an edited version of what Victorinus wrote, and that the editor plainly stated that, “From the beginning of the book to the sign of the cross, we have corrected things which are the corruptions of inexperience of scribes. Know that from there to the end of the book is added.” (Jerome's letter to Anatolius, which is the prologue to his edition of Victorinus' commentary.” You an read the entire commentary, as originally written, at http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/v/victorinus-of-petau.html)

Again, the following statement by John of Crysostem is evidence of the pre-tribulation rapture having been taught in early Christian centuries.

“2 Thessalonians ii. 6–9
“‘And now ye know that which restraineth, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season. For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of His mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of His coming: even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan.’
“One may naturally enquire, what is that which withholdeth, and after that would know, why Paul expresses it so obscurely. What then is it that withholdeth, that is, hindereth him from being revealed? Some indeed say, the grace of the Spirit, but others the Roman empire, to whom I most of all accede. Wherefore? Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him.” (Homilies on 2 Thessalonians, Homily IV, by John Chrysostom. This is thought to have been written sometime between the years 395 and 407. from Volume XIII of “Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers,” series 2, as translated by James Tweed and edited by Philip Schaff, as found in the American edition edited by Phillip Schaff , and as found online at Christian Classics Ethereal Library. )

Although it is strangely stated, this appears to be a saying that some in the day of John of Crysostom were saying that the restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2:6 is the Holy Spirit. As this is one of the key elements of the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture, this appears to be evidence that some were teaching this doctrine around the beginning of the fifth century. This is all the more important historically, because the man who mentioned this doctrine did not himself believe it.

Church is taken away in Rev 6?, it does not say that.
Look at the horrendous devastations in Rev 6, before the heavens rolled back like a scroll, sounds like a great tribulation.

Next chapter 7, tells us those who were martyred came out from the great tribulation in Chapter 6.
Revelation unfolds as books within the book, so Rev 6 sums up the end destruction of the wicked and Rev 7 shows the outcome of what happened in Rev 6 for the people of God.

Revelation is not entirely composed of linear time, chapter 1 to the last chapter.
Later chapters simply expose in greater detail the earlier chapters.

A Multitude from the Great Tribulation
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”

13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Footnotes:

 

[Biblewriter]

Church is taken away in Rev 6?, it does not say that.
Look at the horrendous devastations in Rev 6, before the heavens rolled back like a scroll, sounds like a great tribulation.

Next chapter 7, tells us those who were martyred came out from the great tribulation in Chapter 6.
Revelation unfolds as books within the book, so Rev 6 sums up the end destruction of the wicked and Rev 7 shows the outcome of what happened in Rev 6 for the people of God.

Revelation is not entirely composed of linear time, chapter 1 to the last chapter.
Later chapters simply expose in greater detail the earlier chapters.

A Multitude from the Great Tribulation
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”

13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Footnotes:

I agree that the interpretation is far fetched. My point was not whether he was correct or incorrect, but only what he said.