Pre-creation, existence of God's souls and bodies?

[Mark Quayle]

Where does it say God is a Spirit?

John 4
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

 

[Mark Quayle]

Of course I was referring to God BEFORE Jesus was born in the flesh. So you think The Son of God at Genesis 1:26-27 had a flesh body? That idea is kind of sick.

If this temporal, material, 'flesh' is made in the image of God, then God's 'flesh' body is not the same as ours. It is, obviously, superior. It is not to be compared to ours, but ours to it. I consider the spiritual, particularly God, to be considerably more substantial than this temporal. What we consider physical is like a vapor in comparison. Again, I said IF.

But as to your logic, the notion that it is "kind of sick" to think that the Son of God had a flesh body before being born in the flesh, how is that any sicker than to think that the Son of God had a flesh body after being born in the flesh? (And no, I do not think he had a flesh body (before his incarnation) in the same manner he did after.)

Mark Quayle said: ↑
I agree that the 'image of God' in which we are created is not primarily a reference to the fleshly form or function, though that could be a part of it. There is a difference to us that the angels will never attain, and for which the angels love us, and the demons hate us.

Not, or could be, which is it? You sound uncertain. Yeah, the angels aren't born in the flesh, which appears to be why the angels of Genesis 6 coveted flesh woman suggesting they were jealous of those born in the flesh, so they came to earth and took wives of flesh woman.

The way I interpret angels is that just like people on earth, there are good angels, and then there are bad angels.

The apparent scorn here is a bit uncalled for, I think.

It could be a reference to our fleshly form and/or function. Why should I be decided on the question? It is just something I consider.

I don't know of anyone who studies the Bible well, who thinks the angels were born at all, (nevermind born in the flesh). Meanwhile, don't be so sure the 'sons of God' who took women to wife were angels. That is an assumption passed down through the years, and we have no proof of it. There are other possible meanings of 'sons of God'.

God's Word only points to 2 different dimensions of existence, this earthly dimension, and the heavenly dimension where His Abode and the angels live, behind a veil. Hebrews 11 reveals that God as a Spirit is how this material universe was created, showing that material matter did not create material matter. In John 3, Lord Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. So there's only two dimensions defined in God's Word. And I like to keep it simple like His Word does.

In Isaiah 45:18, God said He did not create this earth "in vain". He said He created it to be inhabited, lived upon. Isaiah 65 shows that's how His future Kingdom will be, upon this earth. So all of men's doctrines about living up in the clouds is just fancy dreaming by those who don't really study their Bible that well.

If, as several have posted, it is logical that what is material, being created, is created by something from outside itself, then it is also logical, that what is immaterial, yet also created, is created by something from outside itself. The angels are created beings, and the realm in which they operate is also created.

Your arrogant superiority of study method or ability or accomplishment (or whatever you are referring to by "don't really study their bible that well") notwithstanding, I don't know of anybody whose doctrine includes actually "living up in the clouds". I could be just as arrogant in my attitude toward you, who find it necessary to believe that the new heaven and new earth and 'old things are passed away' means that God's kingdom on earth is of the same order of 'physical' we experience now.

 

[Davy]

If this temporal, material, 'flesh' is made in the image of God, then God's 'flesh' body is not the same as ours.

Whoa! Where is it written that God has a flesh body? Even with Lord Jesus, Apostle Paul showed in 1 Corinthians 15:44-47 that Lord Jesus' flesh body was transfigured to "a quickening spirit".

Our Heavenly Father does have an outward physical image though, it's just made of Spirit, and not of flesh. The flesh is of this earthly material world. As shown twice just on this thread already, per John 4:24 God is "a Spirit". That's how He created this material universe. But that material universe, i.e., the creation, is not Him (Romans 1:20-25).

In Genesis 1:26-27 The Godhead is making the man Adam, with "And God said, Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness...". That's about the outward physical appearance or outward image likeness. That image of man thus originates in the Heavenly with God's Own image likeness. We look like Him, and He looks like us, meaning the image of man of course (no offense ladies). This is why the title "sons of God" is actually a Heavenly dimension title applied to the angels in Job and Genesis 6, but to all Christians since Jesus's death and resurrection. It's really to point to our future glorious body in the world to come.

It is, obviously, superior. It is not to be compared to ours, but ours to it. I consider the spiritual, particularly God, to be considerably more substantial than this temporal. What we consider physical is like a vapor in comparison. Again, I said IF.

But as to your logic, the notion that it is "kind of sick" to think that the Son of God had a flesh body before being born in the flesh, how is that any sicker than to think that the Son of God had a flesh body after being born in the flesh? (And no, I do not think he had a flesh body (before his incarnation) in the same manner he did after.)

It's sick because such an idea is nowhere written that Jesus was flesh prior to being born by The Holy Spirit in Mary's womb. It's actually an idea that removes Lord Jesus from being part of The Godhead, since The Godhead is not made of flesh, but of Spirit. This is no doubt why Lord Jesus' flesh body was transfigured to "a quickening spirit" like Apostle Paul showed in 1 Corinthians 15. It's also how Jesus was able to suddenly appear midst His disciples in a closed off room, and suddenly disappear also. Flesh can't do that. And Paul also said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[TedT]

Where does it say God is a Spirit?

John 4:24 God is spirit...

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Like we will have glorified bodies, and the Christ does, maybe the Father and Spirit do.

Angels may or may not have bodies as they travel and relate with different attributes. They can disguise themselves.

I think of God as Spirit like wind or space, not a wind or a space. Instead, endless, and transcendent.

God is Spirit, not dualistic but tripartistically the spirit and soul are two parts. Is the soul a created thing, in God? Or is it self existent? Because the apostles tell us of the mind of the Spirit, not to grieve the Spirit and tell of the will of the Spirit, which are willingly submitted, or better conformed, or subordinated, to the lead of the Father and the Son, as all are equal.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Thinking of God, before any creature existed, not even a germ, God had a relational nature.

I would go with God, the Holy Spirit and the 4 holy Beasts in the Re:4 Temple are all 'residents' in Mount Sion. It is the location of the Great White Throne event as well as being the Angel's perfected heaven.

Heb:12:18-24:
For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched,
and that burned with fire,
nor unto blackness,
and darkness,
and tempest,
And the sound of a trumpet,
and the voice of words;
which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
(For they could not endure that which was commanded,
And if so much as a beast touch the mountain,
it shall be stoned,
or thrust through with a dart:
And so terrible was the sight,
that Moses said,
I exceedingly fear and quake
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,
and to the blood of sprinkling,
that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

This is Jesus's (Christ actually) witness of Ge:1:

Proverb:8:22-24:
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning,
or ever the earth was.
When there were no depths,
I was brought forth;
when there were no fountains abounding with water.
.
.
Proverb:8:30-31:
Then I was by him,
as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing always before him;
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

 

[Davy]

My question from this premise is, before creation, did God have a soul and or a body of matter or, are these created things? The soul, in three parts, the mind, the will and the emotions. The Spirit, soul and body, the latter two, are they created?

We are made in His image and likeness, relational beings to visit God in person, at a later time, seeing Him face to face.

This perspective can take into account other religions and gods such as the first god of Hinduism, Purusha, and Allah, and the Greek gods. And the Buddhist idea, that god can't be known. Also the rarer than Trinitarian belief of Modalism.

Does God have a face? Do the Son and the Spirit have souls and bodies each, or part of that?

One of the answers to your question is in Hebrews 11:3...

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

That is a natural law in physics, the law of the conservation of mass (or matter). It states that material matter cannot be created nor destroyed, but only change in form (solid, liquid, gas, vapor, energy).

It means matter did not create itself. And it further points out the fact that something 'outside' the realm of matter created matter. We call that something GOD. And in John 4, he said "God is a Spirit". Thus the Heavenly realm of Spirit is what created material matter. Yet that Spirit is not of matter, nor can it be.

When we either die, or are changed on the "last trump", that is when we will perfectly understand what the Heavenly dimension of Spirit actually is and how it operates.

Further, per Genesis 1:26-27 with the creation of Adam, it is not saying that image for 'man' originated in material matter, but from GOD's Own Image outward likeness. So yeah, God does... have an outward image form, and behold, it is that of the image of 'man'. He created us to outwardly look like He does in the Heavenly dimension. That has to mean... that image of 'man' has always.. existed eternally, with His Image. We cannot speculate if He looked like a bug before, as there is absolutely NO evidence in Scripture of that kind of idea (which type of thinking is more associated with how those on the false idea of evolution think.)