Pre-Adamite Doctrine, History and Teaching

[Research3]

again you start slinging mud.
if the idea is wrong then point out where.

dont sink to that level. Its not christian.

Precisely.

 

[theWaris1]

Once again another pointless rant from someone who clearly has never read the Bible. Please look up the basics of Two House Theology.

The Jews are not Israel, and never have claimed to be. The House of Israel are the Ten Tribes, the Jews only Judah. Both are completely distinct, different people.

It's not British Israelites who only claim Jews are not the House of Israel. Jews themselves admit they are not Israel.

Chief Rabbi - Dr. H. Adler:

"You are quite right to assume that the Ten Tribes did not return to the Holy Land."

Rabbi Aaron Werner of Spokane, U.S.A., when asked by the late Dr. Schiffner - "Do the Jews represent all Twelve Tribes?" replied:

"No, the Ten Tribes of Israel were carried away by Sennacherib King of Assyria and have become LOST. The Jews of today are but a remnant made up of the Tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi."

- Jews are not Israel and never have claimed to be. They are only Judah (with a segment of Benjamin and Levi).

Who invented the lie the Jews = Israel? You can blame that on Judeo-Christian pastors who have no idea what they are talking about.

Some Jews have claimed to be all Israel. I don't think Jews are of Judah. 2nd Kings 16 (12th book)is the first mention of the Jew and they were living in Elath on the Red Sea(Edom) while Judah was ruling Jerusalem. Syrians who were related to Hebrews and Allies with Judah attacked the Jews and ran them out of Elath. Judah ruled all of Judea at this time.

Wikipedia on Edom says that the Edomites plundered Jersalem and moved into Hebron when Judeans was taken to Babylon as it's mentioned in scriptures..

Interestingly, modern Jews own all the land down to Elath today. There old home land.




When christ was speaking with some Jews "They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? " John 3:33

Why wouldn't a Hebrew know they had been in bondage for a few hundred years? Maybe because they weren't really ever Hebrews?

Yeshua(jesus) also told the Jews if they were Abrahams seed then they would do the works of Abraham.


There is more in the book of Maccrabees the leader of Judah, John Hrycanus) fought against the Jews. The Idumean Jew named Herod, the anti-Christ, stopped John Hycranus and eventually Judah tried to convert the Jews, going against the scripture., The Jews took control of Judea.

The words Christ used against the Scribes & Pharasee's certainly didn't sound like someone who he was related to. He used harsh words against them. Liars, offspring of serpents, sons of the Father of all lies, who murdered all the prophets starting with Abel(Cains seed).

There isn't one scripture that says Christ was a Jew. Many places where Jew is mentioned the Greek word Judeans should have been used. Research Judean and Jew in Greek.
Pilate said Christ was not a Jew but a Galilean. Galilee and Judah were like two different worlds. Much confusion surrounding the Jews and Judeans.

Rev 2:9 & rev 3:9 has some strong warning for those calling themselves Jews(Judeans) and are not.

Ioudaios (Strongs concordance)
ee-oo-dah'-yos
From G2448 (in the sense of G2455 as a country); udaean, that is, belonging to Jehudah: - Jew (-ess), of Juda.

poor translations
The Greek Aios should render Judah as Judea or Judean.
It is used for Judean and Jew incorrectly.

Judah and Jews are not the same people as 2nd kings 16 confirms.




(Ezekiel 36:5)
"Therefore, thus saith the LORD GOD, surely in the fire of my Jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all IDUMEA, WHICH HAVE APPIOINTED MY LAND INTO THEIR POSSESSION, with the joy of all their heart with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey ."



Esau is still fulfilling prophecy


.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Funny how many people are fighting over the right to be the REAL Israel. Have black Israelites, "Aryan" Israelites, British Israelites, I think there are even Native American Israelites lol. Personally I'm happy being whatever the heck it is I am (some sort of euromix). Don't need to pretend to be a real Jew or anything of the sort. Don't buy into the idea of "chosen" tribes or races to begin with.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Note Notedstrangeperson calls you racist if you think Adam was white, but has no problem with Adam being black...

I should mention I don't really believe in a literal Adam and Eve, but more importantly the idea that the first humans may have been black doesn't affect my view on racism. Black people are no more 'superior' to white people or any other race.

Don't buy into the idea of "chosen" tribes or races to begin with.

Yes, exactly.

The native Berber peoples are Caucasoid, not negroid.

Sigh.
We've been through this over and over and over again. I and other users have answered you. I'm going to be blunt and say if you keep using this argument to prove 'white people were created' then you're a self-righetous, bigoted fool.

Aside from complaining - without any sense of irony - that I'm a racist, have you actually read my comments on haplogroups?

 

[granpa]

do you believe that caucasions are descended from Japhet?

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

do you believe that caucasions are descended from Japhet?

I don't really think much about the Flood or Noah's sons, so no.

 

[Research3]

I don't think Jews are of Judah.

I think it should be clear that there are obviously more than one claimed Jewish ethnic-group.

I believe the true Jews (i.e the lineal descendants of Judah) to be the Sephardi, who are only counted around 8% of the 'Jewish World' population. In contrast the Ashkenazi are 85 + %.

The Ashkenazi are not infact lineal descendants of Judah, but have their origins during the Khazar Empire (Khazaria), Turkey. This means 85+% of so called modern Jews are not infact the real Jews (Judahites), so i would somewhat agree with you.

Good book i recommend - The 13th Tribe by Arthur Koestler. He proves though history, anthropology, genetics etc that the Ashkenazi are not the real Jews but a '13th tribe' from Khazaria (since the Khazars adopted Judaism as their state religion in the 8th century AD).

 

[Research3]

do you believe that caucasions are descended from Japhet?

See map:

-- Traces of Shem + Ham however can also be found in Northern Europe.

Non-adamite races = non-Aryan caucasoids.

In my model of history -

* I accept old earth.
* I accept the standard models of migration into Europe + elsewhere.
* I date the flood to c.2950 BC and believe it was only local to Mesopotamia (Sumeria).
* I remain skeptical on both evolution and creation. I don't know when the different races were created (or specifically where) but in different places. I subscribe to polygenism.
*I believe the Adamite = the first Sumerian-Aryan dynasty (basically following the identifications of the explorer and archaeologist Laurence Waddell).
*I believe Genesis only starts with the 'creation' of the first Sumerian dynasty (c. 5000 BC). Prior to that falls outside of recorded history and can never be known. I therefore remain skeptical of both creation + evolution.

--- My taking on scripture is therefore entirely historical.

 

[mark kennedy]

The point is this -

*YEC's (or most Christians) date the flood between 2350 - 2200 BC.
*They believe the flood was global.
*They believe all races descended from Noah after the ark.

Right

Yet:

*Egyptian artwork (c.2000 BC) shows 4 + distinct racial types.

How do you get all the races from Noah in just 200 or so years?

As described before as resulting from gene expression, genomic mechanisms, and the recombination of genes.

You would have to believe in macroevolution.

If by that you mean genus level adaptive radiation I would say sure. When you are talking about vital organs its different, but external traits and even speciation events are are accounted for.

YEC's ironically believe in evolution when they need it to suit their model of history...

Of course, the change of alleles in populations over time are no problem for creationists and the scientific definition of evolution. The a priori assumption of universal common descent on the other hand is a model of history that creationists reject.

Genesis states the ark landed on the Mountains of Ararat. Note the plural - not a single mountain. It's not the same as the mountain in Turkey.

Nevertheless...

Most early Christian writers placed mountains in Syria. Other locations also have been suggested.

Which changes nothing.

A few points:

* All of Noah's descendants were one race.
* Post-flood settlement only regards an ANE geographic context.

The former is true while the latter is based on a false assumption of a local flood.

Both of these are common sense points. Do you really think Noah's kids were australian aborigines who landed in Asia Minor and then migrated thousands of miles to Australia? Or the eskimos, thousands of miles to the Arctic?

Eskimos are native Americans who could have migrated across the Bearing Straight which was probably a land bridge at the time. As far as the Aborigines, Australia is known for unique life forms, it is no stretch tho assume large scale adaptive radiation. The logistics would obviously require sea travel, or some means by which living creatures could manage their way to Australia.

And how do you get all the races from one race in only 200 or so years?

Did you ever notice that the Chimpanzees have speciated at least once, same with gorillas, even though they are relatively localized. Human beings never do, any human being can interbreed with Aborigines or Eskimos, humans do not differ from other humans by more then a fraction of a percent of their genome.

And why have no races evolved in 4,000 years or recorded history? But YEC's say they suddenly did as a 'one off' in only 200 years?????????

The defining characteristics of race can be reduced to size, shape color and an assortment of metabolic functions. I think there is an abiding prejudice that prevents you from seeing that variety isn't really even properly called race, they actually call them dems now.

None of this is science.

Races have never been observed to change or evolve in 4000 years, so how could they suddenly have done so in only 200 after the flood?

You showed me pictures of Egyptians who were different colors, that's not an insurmountable problem. As a matter of fact if you know anything about Mendelian genetics it's readily accounted for.

 

[theWaris1]

I've heard of the book.

There are some Asian looking people on youtube that claim to be the real Khazars and say the Jewish Khazars are a myth. I dunno

Sephardi ?

2Ki 17:24 And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.


Could it be the same people?

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Traces of Shem + Ham however can also be found in Northern Europe.
Non-adamite races = non-Aryan caucasoids.

My taking on scripture is therefore entirely historical.

Where did you get the map from? Is there any science backing up your claim? It also has a glaring obvious mistake - Australian Aboriginals are not negroes. They're a completely different race.

Incidently earlier you were arguing against Mark Kennedy, saying:

Please remember the earliest artwork and written documentation of the different races dates from c. 2000 BC, ancient egypt.
YEC's date the flood between 2348 - 2200 BC.

How on earth do you get all racial types in only 200 or so years?

Then you changed the date -

I date the flood to c.2950 BC and believe it was only local to Mesopotamia (Sumeria).

At least try to keep your 'facts' straight.

 

[granpa]

we can associate countries like Ethiopia with cush and egypt with mizraim.
what countries are associated with noah and his predecessors?

 

[theWaris1]

See map:

I don't think that map is accurate. I dont think it was that perfectly separated ever. some people claim the Greeks were of Japeth. Later some sojourning Israelites merged in Thracia, Corinth, Albania, Macedonia.


Have you seen the articles on the oldest known skeletal remains in North America being from Caucasians? At least two separate finds predate any other remains.

 

[granpa]

off-topic but a good documentary on petra is now playing:

Re-Evolucion Channel on Justin.tv

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Have you seen the articles on the oldest known skeletal remains in North America being from Caucasians? At least two separate finds predate any other remains.

Link please.

------------

Just an observation - Research3 claimed Adam could not have been the father of all races, having difficulty understanding how so many variations could have come from one person. Strangely though Noah was said to have had three sons, all of different races: Ham = black, Japhet = white, Shem = yellow.

If you believe Noah can father three different races in a single generation why is it so hard to believe Adam could have fathered the whole human race (Caucasian, Negro, Mongolic, Asian etc.) over many generations?

 

[theWaris1]

Cro-Magnon skeletons discovered in North America


I don't believe Noah had 3 sons of different races.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I don't think it's fare that Caucasians don't get to be Pre-Adamic serpent people too. "Mongoloids" are lucky. Can I become an honorary Pre-Adamic serpent person? Do they come from Lumeria, Atlantis, or Hyperborea?

 

[theWaris1]

we can associate countries like Ethiopia with cush and egypt with mizraim.
what countries are associated with noah and his predecessors?

There was another land called Cush located near India. Aryans came from India and Iran.

India was said to be mostly White long ago.

Sumeria is where Abram came from and it is believed that Noah lived there after the area was flooded.
Japeth went north and Ham went South it is believed.



Below is an interesting study and find on Sargon of old Babylon area. Believed to be Cain

www.biblestudysite.com/sargon ebook

 

[Ishraqiyun]

There was another land called Cush located near India. Aryans came from India and Iran.

India was said to be mostly White long ago.

I don't think Indians or Iranians are significantly darker now than they were back in the day. Just because they are "Aryan" doesn't mean they are as pale as a red headed Irishmen. A lot of racist drivel was written about the Indian Aryans in the 19th and the early 20th century that is pretty much disregarded by scholars now a days. It was more romantic racial mythology then science.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Cro-Magnon skeletons discovered in North America

Erm, it's from a site looking for the lost city of Atlantis but OK.
Pretty impressive but they're not the oldest human skeletons discovered:

So far, the earliest finds of modern Homo sapiens skeletons come from Africa. They date to at least nearly 200,000 years ago on that continent.​

- Anthro.palomar.edu​

The species that you and all other living human beings on this planet belong to is Homo sapiens. During a time of dramatic climate change 200,000 years ago, Homo sapiens (modern humans) evolved in Africa.​

- Smithsonian Museum​

I don't think it's fare that Caucasians don't get to be Pre-Adamic serpent people too.

"Mongoloids" are lucky.