Praying to the saints is questionable.

[graysparrow]

Yes, my Mother is the mother of me,and my Father is the father of me, but not the giver of my soul and spirit, and Who was that that knits us together in our earthly mother's womb? Your giving too much credit to Mary where it is not deserved, she was the earthly mother of Jesus, not His Creator.

Jesus was not created (He's not a creature, but God) be careful with the words you choose.

 

[feo]

It is stated by some people, but that is no excuse to pray to those saints passed on. I don't think it's biblical to say the passed on saints are praying over us.

The Bible doesnt say this?

 

[theseed]

Is your mother the mother of you, or mearly the mother of your flesh? She is the mother of you, the person of course, and so is Mary, the mother of Jesus, the second person in the Most Holy Trinity. He was not two persons, but one, with 2 natures.
She is the Mother of God.

God did not come from a woman. The person of Christ came from God, and is part of the Trinity. Do you believe Mary is the Mother of The Trinity? You can't separate The Trinity.

Mary is the mothe of Jesus in regards that she gave birth and raised him as a child, she is not the mother in regards to his origen or personhood because Jesus Christ is God. Christ existed before Mary, before the creation of the world. Thefore, Mary can not be the mother of God. To suggest that God came from a woman is blasphemy IMHO.

 

[theseed]

Consider the source and it's bias.



Was the Lord that St. Elizabeth speaks of God or not ?

How many times have I said, Jesus Christ is God"? Did God come from a human? No. Did Christ come from a human? No. Christ came from God alone and is God, alone.

 

[Oblio]

To suggest that God came from a woman is blasphemy IMHO.

No one is suggesting that He came (or was created by) from a woman. We are stating plainly that Mary the Theotokos bore God in her womb, and gave physical birth to Him who is God. She fed Him by her breasts, changed his diapers (nappies), dried His tears when he fell down when He learned to walk. She is the mother of our God.

 

[Oblio]

Yes or No

Was the Lord that St. Elizabeth speaks of God or not ?

 

[Iollain]

And to give such credit (upon which the anti-Theotokians rest their argument) is unBiblical. Who formed you in your mothers womb ?

I'm not anti Mary, i'm anti what is not Mary. God forms us in the womb.

 

[theseed]

No one is suggesting that He came (or was created by) from a woman. We are stating plainly that Mary the Theotokos bore God in her womb, and gave physical birth to Him who is God. She fed Him by her breasts, changed his diapers (nappies), dried His tears when he fell down when He learned to walk. She is the mother of our God.

Then he mothered Christ in his humanity. However, God is eternal, and Christ is too (Micah 5.2), and He is immutable (Hebrews 13.8).

 

[Iollain]

Jesus was not created (He's not a creature, but God) be careful with the words you choose.

Yes that was a little sloppy, ty.

 

[theseed]

Yes or No

Was the Lord that St. Elizabeth speaks of God or not ?

Again, the premise that Jesus Christ is God is not in contention, it is the conclusion you make based on that premise which is erronous.

 

[Carrye]

Then he mothered Christ in his humanity. However, God is eternal, and Christ is too (Micah 5.2), and He is immutable (Hebrews 13.8).

Jesus' humanity can be separated from his divinity?

 

[Carrye]

Yes or No

Was the Lord that St. Elizabeth speaks of God or not ?

Yes.

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone! - Deut 6:1

 

[Oblio]

Then he mothered Christ in his humanity.

To state that she was only the mother of His humanity is heresy (Nestorianism).

 

[SolomonVII]

"Queen of Heaven" the echo of an Assyrian Goddess.

queen of heaven

(Jer. 7:18; 44:17, 25), the moon, worshipped by the Assyrians as the receptive
power in nature.


Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary

This is a strawman, and red herring.
Mary is not the moon for any Christian responding here.
She is not a mythic creature.
She is not Assyrian, and she is not a goddess.
She was a young girl, a humble virgin. As the veritable mother of Jesus, she becomes queen Of Heaven due to that relationship alone.
If Jesus is sitting on the throne in Heaven, then Mary must be the queen, according to the Hebrew traditions which they both belonged to, and that Christians were adopted into.

Your strawman echoes Mohammed's strawman in the Koran. At least for him, though, there were actual pseudo-Christian heretics that existed at that time that did make Mary into some sort of goddess.
They all are Moslems now, or course.

 

[Plan 9]

Oblio, I've been wondering for a long time if we couldn't use a "Nicene Creed 101" class here.
I have no doubt it would benefit me, as well.

 

[Plan 9]

We i think it matters because i do not believe God wants us to try and contact those passed on:

Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I [am] the LORD your God.

Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

I believe that if one tries to contact the passed on they may just get an answer, however i believe that those contacted could be fallen angels, which could pose as certain biblical people (or even family), leading one down the wrong path.

I believe this is wrong also because noone in the bible tried to contact those passed on, if they did try to contact those passed on, (or angels) it lead to no good.

Iollain, that would only be true if I expected my mother to communicate with me, or get a day pass to visit me, or something. I'm not speaking of holding a seance here.
As much as I miss her, I don't want that, even if it were possible. She's in Heaven, and I want her there.

I also see it as replacing the Holy Spirit with humans, and our Mediator with humans.

If so, don't we do that every time we ask an earthly friend for prayer?

I also believe that it is tempting God to do so.

I must be dim, but what does that mean? I have never understood that expression.

Two lumps please

Cream?

 

[theseed]

To state that she was only the mother of His humanity is heresy (Nestorianism).

It can't be heresy, to say that Mary is the mother of God is blasphemy, because God is eternal, and God is Spirit.

 

[theseed]

Jesus' humanity can be separated from his divinity?

Yes, Christ humanity is a product of creation by the Holy Spirit. Christ divinity is the Spirit of God.

When Christ was in the grave, he descended into hell? Pray-tell, how did you he that without a body? He went as a Spirit.

 

[Plan 9]

It can't be heresy, to say that Mary is the mother of God is blasphemy, because God is eternal, and God is Spirit.

But, Seed, the scriptures say that Jesus was God made flesh to dwell among us.

 

[Oblio]

Yes, Christ humanity is a product of creation by the Holy Spirit. Christ divinity is the Spirit of God.

Christ's nature is what is termed homousios. His two natures are inseperable. Without this, we would not be saved.

When Christ was in the grave, he descended into hell? Pray-tell, how did you he that without a body? He went as a Spirit.

He was fully human when He descended into hades, again, without this fact, we are not saved. The teaching that His two natures were ever separated after His Incarnation is heretical.