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PRAYING THE PSALMS

AMM

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Wanted to let y'all know -- my church is having a seminar on the psalms and praying the psalms this week with one of our seminary professors and about a dozen priests, plus a handful of laypeople (myself included). Tomorrow is the last day of it (started yesterday, then had a full day today and half day tomorrow); I'll post some of my notes after tomorrow's session when I get a chance. I've found it very edifying so far to discuss how one can pray the psalms and make them our own without falling into the trap of just studying the text, "mining" for information, etc.
 
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Arsenios

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Wanted to let y'all know -- my church is having a seminar on the psalms and praying the psalms this week with one of our seminary professors and about a dozen priests, plus a handful of laypeople (myself included). Tomorrow is the last day of it (started yesterday, then had a full day today and half day tomorrow); I'll post some of my notes after tomorrow's session when I get a chance. I've found it very edifying so far to discuss how one can pray the psalms and make them our own without falling into the trap of just studying the text, "mining" for information, etc.

I would like to hear how they interpret Ps 81 (lxx)...
Specifically this question,
"When did it happen?" eg When was it that God stood...?
_____________________________________________________________

Ps. 81 (lxx)
A Psalm by Asaph

God stood in the Congregation of the gods,
and in the midst He shall stand out among the gods:


"How long will ye judge unrighteously
and accept the person of sinners?
Judge for the orphan and the poor man;
do justice to the humble and the pauper.
Rescue the poor man and the needy;
from the hand of the sinner deliver him.
They have not known nor understood;
They walk in darkness.
Let all the foundations of the earth be shaken.
I said: 'Ye are gods',
and all of you the sons of the Most High.
But like men are ye dying,
and like one of the rulers do ye fall."


Arise, O God, judge the earth,
for Thou shalt have an inheritance
among all the nations!

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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Just stopped by to say that this thread has inspired me to start praying psalms. I should try for a while and then share if I happen to have some thoughts. :)

May God Bless your Walk in the Psalms...

They comprise the Prayer-Book and the Hymnal of the Ancient Faith...

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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Wanted to let y'all know -- my church is having a seminar on the psalms and praying the psalms this week with one of our seminary professors and about a dozen priests, plus a handful of laypeople (myself included). Tomorrow is the last day of it (started yesterday, then had a full day today and half day tomorrow); I'll post some of my notes after tomorrow's session when I get a chance. I've found it very edifying so far to discuss how one can pray the psalms and make them our own without falling into the trap of just studying the text, "mining" for information, etc.

Did I catch you in time with my question?
For your seminar?
eg Where and when did Ps. 81's event take place?
I am very interested to hear how they answer...

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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So that the taking on of the Psalms as a discipline of prayer is a big deal if one does it according to the rubrics of the Eastern Orthodox rule... However, one does not need to do so - And one thing I would highly reccommend is that you find a translation that you can live with, and only use one translation for your prayer rule, should you decide to take it on... And in this, the best of the best is the HTM Psalter:
The Psalter: According to the Seventy: Holy Transfiguration Monastery: 9780943405001: Amazon.com: Books
It is KJV-esque, but translates the LXX Greek Psalter rather than the Jewish [non-Christian] late version text of the Masoretes... It has large type, and is a largish lite blue book... The advantage is that if you stick to just one really good translation, you can memorize Psalms with confidence, and not worry about translational issues...

Another little note, in the early Church, one could not become elevated to the Episcopate unless one had memorized the entire Psalter... In Greek, I should add - In which most were fluent, at least orally...

With the LXX Psalter divided into 20 segments called kathismas, one can take on the praying of it at a more leisurely pace, say one kathisma per evening, and thus complete the Psalter every 4 weeks of week-day prayers... And by doing this, one submits to a discipline rather than reading "as the spirit moves"...

And the mining of the day's Kathisma of Psalms for something to pray from time to time throughout the day, taken from one's readings of that day, is also a good thing - One of my favorites is: "I will take the Cup of Salvation, and I will call on the Name of the Lord."

But the important thing is to establish a discipline of prayer, and not a discipline of study... And there is no better place to begin than with the Psalms... I have a friend in prison, and he has taken on the whole Psalter each week - It helps keep him focused on his purpose there... And sane... Prison is hard... And prayers offered in such places find a real Home in God...

Arsenios
 
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AMM

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Did I catch you in time with my question?
For your seminar?
eg Where and when did Ps. 81's event take place?
I am very interested to hear how they answer...

Arsenios
Apologies for the delay -- I found out last week that one of my friends recently died, and I haven't been on CF much. Unfortunately, I was not able to ask about Psalm 81 before the end of the seminar. I believe the traditional Lutheran teaching is that the gods in the psalm refer to the kings and rulers of the earth, who are representatives of God (as per Romans 13).
 
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Arsenios

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Arsenios said:
Where and when did Ps. 81's event take place?

Apologies for the delay -- I found out last week that one of my friends recently died, and I haven't been on CF much. Unfortunately, I was not able to ask about Psalm 81 before the end of the seminar. I believe the traditional Lutheran teaching is that the gods in the psalm refer to the kings and rulers of the earth, who are representatives of God (as per Romans 13).

I think I have located the particular group and the exact day in Scripture...

eg John 10

Where this Psalm was included in the assigned reading for the Jewish Services in the Synagogue for that day which had just concluded... The Services were followed by teachings and discussions... This is how both Christ and Paul and all the Apostles initially spread the Gospel in Jewish communities...

The Psalm being prophetic...

Prayers for your reposed friend...

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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So on the theory that in this life, at least, we become what we do...
What can be said for the repetetive praying of the Psalms?
The daily praying, for instance, of Ps 50/51 [lxx/masorete] "Have Mercy on me O God..."
Does or can this practiced fall under Christ's condemnation:

Matt 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions,
as the heathen do:
for they think that they shall be heard
for their much speaking.

Arsenios
 
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AMM

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Can it? Certainly. My belief is that "vain repetition" would be either (1) repeating something mindlessly without making the prayer our own, chewing it over, and praying it (i.e. just saying the words) or (2) praying because you believe God will be more likely to hear a prayer if we say it a lot. So I'd say it's more in the mindset of the pray-er, rather than simply repeating prayers.
 
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“Paisios”

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I'm curious what anyone here thinks of Bonhoeffer's thoughts on the Psalms in his writings Life Together and Prayer Book of the Bible. I love Discipleship,and have read, but not yet studied, the former, so would be interested in your interpretation on his thoughts on using the psalms as prayers...
 
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Moses wrote this Psalm so it would seem that it would be the earliest Psalm written?
It's the prayer of Moses, a man of God
Psalm 90
1 Lord, you have been our dwelling place
in all generations.
2 Before the mountains were brought forth,
or ever you had formed the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God.


3 You turn us back to dust,
and say, “Turn back, you mortals.”
4 For a thousand years in your sight
are like yesterday when it is past,
or like a watch in the night.

5 You sweep them away; they are like a dream,
like grass that is renewed in the morning;
6 in the morning it flourishes and is renewed;
in the evening it fades and withers.

7 For we are consumed by your anger;
by your wrath we are overwhelmed.
8 You have set our iniquities before you,
our secret sins in the light of your countenance.

9 For all our days pass away under your wrath;
our years come to an end like a sigh.
10 The days of our life are seventy years,
or perhaps eighty, if we are strong;
even then their span is only toil and trouble;
they are soon gone, and we fly away.

11 Who considers the power of your anger?
Your wrath is as great as the fear that is due you.
12 So teach us to count our days
that we may gain a wise heart.

13 Turn, O Lord! How long?
Have compassion on your servants!
14 Satisfy us in the morning with your steadfast love,
so that we may rejoice and be glad all our days.
15 Make us glad as many days as you have afflicted us,
and as many years as we have seen evil.
16 Let your work be manifest to your servants,
and your glorious power to their children.
17 Let the favor of the Lord our God be upon us,
and prosper for us the work of our hands—
O prosper the work of our hands!​
 
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Arsenios

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Moses wrote this Psalm so it would seem that it would be the earliest Psalm written?
It's the prayer of Moses, a man of God
Psalm 90
1 Lord, you have been our dwelling place
in all generations.
2 Before the mountains were brought forth,
or ever you had formed the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God.


3 You turn us back to dust,
and say, “Turn back, you mortals.”
4 For a thousand years in your sight
are like yesterday when it is past,
or like a watch in the night.

5 You sweep them away; they are like a dream,
like grass that is renewed in the morning;
6 in the morning it flourishes and is renewed;
in the evening it fades and withers.

7 For we are consumed by your anger;
by your wrath we are overwhelmed.
8 You have set our iniquities before you,
our secret sins in the light of your countenance.

9 For all our days pass away under your wrath;
our years come to an end like a sigh.
10 The days of our life are seventy years,
or perhaps eighty, if we are strong;
even then their span is only toil and trouble;
they are soon gone, and we fly away.

11 Who considers the power of your anger?
Your wrath is as great as the fear that is due you.
12 So teach us to count our days
that we may gain a wise heart.

13 Turn, O Lord! How long?
Have compassion on your servants!
14 Satisfy us in the morning with your steadfast love,
so that we may rejoice and be glad all our days.
15 Make us glad as many days as you have afflicted us,
and as many years as we have seen evil.
16 Let your work be manifest to your servants,
and your glorious power to their children.
17 Let the favor of the Lord our God be upon us,
and prosper for us the work of our hands—
O prosper the work of our hands!​

Here is the HTM Translation - It is one of the daily Psalms prayed the 1st Hour of each day, starting at sunrise, or 6AM, especially in Alaska where days and nights can throw times off...

As a Psalm of Moses, it is one of the early Psalms, I should think - I cannot say, for I am a prayer of the Psalms, and not a scholar of their origins...

Lord, Thou hast been our refuge in generation and generation.
Before the mountains came to be and the earth was formed and the world,
even from everlasting to everlasting Thou art.

Turn not man away unto lowliness;
yea, Thou hast said:
Turn back, ye sons of men.

For a thousand years in Thine eyes, O Lord,
are but as yesterday that is past,
and as a watch in the night.

Things of no account shall their years be;
in the morning like grass shall man pass away.
In the morning shall he bloom and pass away,
in the evening shall he fall and grow withered and dry.

For we have fainted away in Thy wrath,
and in Thine anger have we been troubled.
Thou hast set our iniquities before Thee;
our lifespan is in the light of Thy countenance.

For all our days are faded away,
and in Thy wrath are we fainted away;
our years have, like a spider, spun out their tale.

As for the days of our years, in their span they be threescore years and ten.
And if we be in strength, mayhap fourscore years;
and what is more than these is toil and travail.

For mildness is come upon us, and we shall be chastened.
Who knoweth the might of Thy wrath?
And out of fear of Thee, who can recount Thine anger?

So make Thy right hand known to me,
and to them that in their heart are instructed in wisdom.
Return, O Lord; how long?
And be Thou entreated concerning Thy servants.

We were filled in the morning with Thy mercy, O Lord,
and we rejoiced and were glad.
In all our days, let us be glad for the days
wherein Thou didst humble us,
for the years wherein we saw evils.

And look upon Thy servants,
and upon Thy works,
and do Thou guide their sons.

And let the brightness of the Lord our God be upon us,
and the works of our hands do Thou guide aright upon us,
yea, the work of our hands do Thou guide aright.


We normally pray this Psalm in the First Hour before beginning Orthros on Sunday Mornings... That would be 8:45, technically the 3rd Hour, perhaps, but as a way to help quieten those awaiting the beginning of Orthros and begin them into a mode of prayer for what is to follow - eg Orthros followed by the Divine Liturgy... It is not a Psalm that I have ever memorized...

Arsenios
 
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