Praying, repetitiveness, concentration

bbbbbbb · Jul 19, 2016

~Anastasia~ said:
I may be oversimplifying things, but I think having God always in one's mind is one of the main purposes of the prayers we are given by the Church.

That is quite fine as long as people don't limit themselves to only those prayers, but pray at all times (I Thessalonians 5:17).

mikpat · Jul 19, 2016

So much praying———perhaps it might be beneficial, not to pray but to sit in silence, try to empty your thoughts, relax, and maybe you'll make room for the voice of God (Vox Dei) This helpful advice can be found in "Lectio Divina." As St. John of the Cross wrote—" we have to black out the visible in order to see the invisible."

Satan has many ways of taking man's weaknesses and throwing them at us when we are praying—-Satan hates it when we pray to Christ.

Orlando_WCBC · Jul 19, 2016

Sometimes, when I pray, after I've said and asked everything that comes to mind, I just sit still and meditate on Him.

Just remember that God isn't just a giver of comfort, forgiveness, guidance, etc., but also a friend. All Christians have a relationship with Him, and when prayer becomes repetitive, it can help to treat our relationship with God as a relationship with a friend. You don't always need to be speaking to Him. Sometimes it helps to just be with Him and silently, calmly enjoy His company.

Goatee · Jul 19, 2016

mikpat said:
So much praying———perhaps it might be beneficial, not to pray but to sit in silence, try to empty your thoughts, relax, and maybe you'll make room for the voice of God (Vox Dei) This helpful advice can be found in "Lectio Divina." As St. John of the Cross wrote—" we have to black out the visible in order to see the invisible."

Satan has many ways of taking man's weaknesses and throwing them at us when we are praying—-Satan hates it when we pray to Christ.

Nice post. Thanks for sharing.

I have several prayers that i say in the morning and the Rosary in the night. During the day i try to let God know i love him and i do talk to him in general terms.

Thanks

Goatee · Jul 19, 2016

Orlando_WCBC said:
Sometimes, when I pray, after I've said and asked everything that comes to mind, I just sit still and meditate on Him.

Just remember that God isn't just a giver of comfort, forgiveness, guidance, etc., but also a friend. All Christians have a relationship with Him, and when prayer becomes repetitive, it can help to treat our relationship with God as a relationship with a friend. You don't always need to be speaking to Him. Sometimes it helps to just be with Him and silently, calmly enjoy His company.

Great post. Thanks

mikpat · Jul 19, 2016

Antletems,

The solution, answers, satisfaction, joy of praying comes about with the desolution of the false self. Happiness in prayer comes about by renouncing the illusory self….People involved with greed, self satisfaction, narcissism, etc. will pray but there is no one there to listen.

mikpat · Jul 19, 2016

Again, Antletems,,,,,try being quiet, cut out the mind-clutter and let Christ talk to you.

Goatee · Jul 19, 2016

mikpat said:
Again, Antletems,,,,,try being quiet, cut out the mind-clutter and let Christ talk to you.

Superb advice! God bless you my friend

~Anastasia~ · Jul 19, 2016

bbbbbbb said:
That is quite fine as long as people don't limit themselves to only those prayers, but pray at all times (I Thessalonians 5:17).

No one has ever suggested such a thing. I doubt anyone limits themselves only to formal prayers. Incidentally, we do also have a different pursuit of 1 Thess 5:17 ... a deeper one that is possible even though one cannot fully engage one's consciousness in prayer at all times, including while sleeping.

faroukfarouk · Jul 19, 2016

Sam91 said:
I think a lot of people over complicate it. We are given his Holy spirit to help us know what to pray. I don't do half of that stuff but prayers are still answered.

I don't always need words. (I rarely pray without words but it is useful sometimes, I just say 'Lord you know my heart, you know what I need, I'm sorry for everything (its often pride), I'm listening and sit communing with him at peace and let His Holy spirit do it and just listening... not that I hear anything but feel like my soul at least is hearing is being put right).

Complete faith makes prayer powerful.

3AM? Yes, this happens to me as well sometimes, if I can't sleep. We can pray at any hour of the day...or night.

PS: Of course, you guys are several hours ahead of us in North America.

BelleC · Jul 19, 2016

Open Heart said:
For a non-Catholic you have EXCELLENT understanding of the Rosary!

Thank you! My understanding of it at all is part reading and the rest EWTN and Mother Angelica. May she rest in peace in the presence of Jesus.

mikpat · Jul 20, 2016

Many of the Catholic religious orders, especially the contemplative ones, have training in "contemplation." In many cases, such as the Trappists, Carthusians, most of their day is spent in work and prayer—-orare et labore——In these instances, prayer is the hi light of each day because they come close to Christ as they pray.

There's an excellent small book on prayer and contemplation by the Cistercian (Trappist) monk, Thomas Merton,
"The Inner Experience" Fr.Merton is best known for his auto biography—-"The Seven Story Mountain" a world-wide best seller.

AMDG

Deadworm · Jul 20, 2016

Recent posts on this thread make "nice" comments, but generally abandon the OP's purpose, namely to discuss why Jesus opposes repetitious and verbose prayers. The Lord's Prayer was not originally intended to be a liturgically recited prayer. Still, as a pastor, I generally ended my pastoral prayers by leading the people to recite the Lord's Prayer in my more traditional service because 90% of the people wanted me to do so. But the Lord's Prayer was intended to serve as a model for the elements of prayer: "Pray then like this (Matt. 6:13)."

Regular recitation can distract people from learning exactly what the prayer means as a model. I preached a 4-week series on the prayer's role as a model, and for most of the people, what I taught them was brand new to them! Constant repetition of the Lord's Prayer, or for that matter, of any prayer is actually spiritually harmful, if it creates a mentality, whereby Christians are uncomfortable with spontaneous prayer and grow tone deaf to the prayer's actual meaning.

As famed Christian author, G. K. Chesterton once paradoxically wrote, "THe more a man looks at a thing, the less he can see it, and the more he learns it, the less he knows it." Chesterton wrote this primarily to explain why the British resisted cries to replace juries of ordinary citizens with trained lawyers."

Meowzltov · Jul 20, 2016

Deadworm said:
The Lord's Prayer was not originally intended to be a liturgically recited prayer.

I disagree. You are looking at this from a 21st century Protestant viewpoint instead of from a 1st century Jewish viewpoint. In second Temple Judaism, the Amidah (Standing Prayer) was in its rudimentary form. Rabbis would form additional prayers for their disciples to tag on to the end of the Amidah. When it said that Jesus had just finished praying, it means that he and his disciples had just finished the Amidah. The disciples ask him to teach them to pray as John had taught his disciples, meaning teach them an addendum to the Amidah. Thus, the Our Father from its inception was meant to be a Liturgical Prayer.

Deadworm · Jul 21, 2016

Open Heart :"I disagree. You are looking at this from a 21st century Protestant viewpoint instead of from a 1st century Jewish viewpoint."

No, I'm looking at this from Jesus' viewpoint: "Pray then like this," not "pray this prayer." The Gospels tell us that Jesus often wandered off into the deserted places for long prayer vigils. His prayer life could be very emotional with "loud cries and tears" (Hebrews 5:7), and not just in Gethsemane.

Open Heart: "When it said that Jesus had just finished praying, it means that he and his disciples had just finished the Amidah. The disciples ask him to teach them to pray as John had taught his disciples, meaning teach them an addendum to the Amidah."

Wrong on 3 counts:
(1) The text (Matt. 6:9) never says Jesus had just finished praying!
(2) The Amidah means "a standing prayer," and Jesus was sitting down (Matt. 5:1).
(3) Most fatal of all to your claim is that the Amidah was composed much later than Jesus' lifetime!

Colter · Jul 21, 2016

antletems said:
Do you find prayer repetitive? Do you loose concentration when praying?

Sometimes i rush my prayers without a lot of thought. This is wrong i know. I do try to concentrate but do find it hard.

For those of us who recite the Rosary (Please, no Catholic Bashing on this) i also get lost in the day etc when praying the Rosary.

I know this is all normal but i really do wish i could push aside thoughts of the day, of life and just concentrate on God alone!

Is this the same for you or not. If not, help!

Any prayer should be sincere, from the heart. An insincere prayer is an abomination! God is a person to, saying things you don't mean, or things that another speech writer wrote is as offensive as to deity as it would be if a friend did the same to you.

Impersonal, repetitive prayer seems more like a belief in magic spells.

Goatee · Jul 21, 2016

Colter said:
Any prayer should be sincere, from the heart. An insincere prayer is an abomination! God is a person to, saying things you don't mean, or things that another speech writer wrote is as offensive as to deity as it would be if a friend did the same to you.

Impersonal, repetitive prayer seems more like a belief in magic spells.

So true. Thanks for sharing that

mikpat · Jul 21, 2016

Good grief—-
some people pray standing, some people pray sitting, some people pray kneeling, some people have favorite prayers, some people pray 6 X a day, some people pray mostly in the evening, some people say small prayers during the day, some people pray in the prone position, some people pray kneeling and bowing.

Some people like praying with a community while others like praying in isolation.
Some people pray in a Church with many icons, stain glass windows,, crosses etc. others pray in the dark area in the back..
of a Church

Expressions in prayer are Vocal, Meditation and Contemplative

Vocal prayer is an essential element of the Christian life.
I guess it all comes down to as to what is in the heart. I don't think God minds what position you take when you pray, what time or day, and what you pray either from a book or off the top of your head…..as long as it is honest and sincere.

Pax Vobiscum.

~Anastasia~ · Jul 21, 2016

mikpat said:
Good grief—-
some people pray standing, some people pray sitting, some people pray kneeling, some people have favorite prayers, some people pray 6 X a day, some people pray mostly in the evening, some people say small prayers during the day, some people pray in the prone position, some people pray kneeling and bowing.

Some people like praying with a community while others like praying in isolation.
Some people pray in a Church with many icons, stain glass windows,, crosses etc. others pray in the dark area in the back..
of a Church

Expressions in prayer are Vocal, Meditation and Contemplative

Vocal prayer is an essential element of the Christian life.
I guess it all comes down to as to what is in the heart. I don't think God minds what position you take when you pray, what time or day, and what you pray either from a book or off the top of your head…..as long as it is honest and sincere.

Pax Vobiscum.

Finally, a voice of reason!

You make me think - it's interesting that some people seem to think that their favored way of prayer is the only valid method. You are right - not much matters as long as it is an expression of our hearts (assuming our hearts are on the right path, at least).

And on the problem of the OP of the prayer becoming "stale" perhaps it can sometimes be that even HAVING a favored method can be the problem. I don't know. All I do know is that yes, I have a prayer rule. But I pray in other ways at other times, part of my rule includes extemporaneous prayers, and I pray in many different positions, surroundings, etc. The only thing I try to keep consistent is a lack of distraction. If I'm planning to pray - I turn off the TV, for example. But if I'm watching TV with others and I need to say something to God, I will pray silently where I am, if needed. Really, none of these externals should absolutely bind us, though I do like certain ones of them and find them of benefit.

Deadworm · Jul 21, 2016

Don't overlook the biblical stress on the need to "keep alert" long enough to "pray in the Spirit (Ephesians 6:18)," that is, in engaging in prolonged prayer until the well of verbiage seems to run dry and the Holy Spirit begins to direct the spontaneous flow of thought. For me, such prayer vigils take about 30 minutes for the burden of perseverance to lift in favor or truly refreshing directed prayer.

I'm in an intercessory prayer group to meet the needs of sick or troubled people and we see marvelous answers to prayer. I know of no one who specializes in memorized prayers in such prayer groups. But there may be many of whom I'm unaware. Do you know many people in your tradition in such prayer groups? My question is another way of getting at the question of how repetitive praying negatively affects regular passionate spontaneous praying. The Book of Acts recounts such prayer groups and, in my experience, the unity and harmony of group prayer are generally more powerful than individual prayer.

Praying, repetitiveness, concentration

Well-Known Member

Active Member

New Member

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

Active Member

Active Member

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

† Handmaid of God †

Fading curmudgeon

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Freylekher Yid

Well-Known Member

Member

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

Active Member

† Handmaid of God †

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency