Praying for the Sick

[anewman1993]

you ask .."Then please tell me why I've not received "?

but in this post alone, let alone all the others, you have done little else but preach the reason.. .. you have formed every argument in opposition that you can come up with and base all your experience and lack of it upon that which is not as that which cannot be .you have such faith that it cannot be .and it is just so..
the principles of faith fully at work .you are filled with reason against Gods word . bro..let go and trust him .

You think in my years of agony Ive not asked that? Of course I have, the closest Ive gotten to a response is a vague "I'm not ready" sense from him, but its the only thing Ive gotten thats remotely in the realm of him answering.

I'm not arguing against the bible, Im arguing FOR the bible against your broken twisted theology. I BELIEVE in healing and I believe I have the RIGHT to it, but no where does it say I have the IMMEDIATE right to it. I have plenty of faith that god can heal me, I don't have faith that he won't, if I had faith that he wouldn't heal me I would have killed myself long ago, the pain I'm in is THAT BAD, but no, I stick it out BECAUSE I have faith that he is going to heal me. I'm just sick of waiting, 4 years of prayer and Ive not been healed, obviously there is a component other than faith, you know, this little thing called GODS TIMING.

I am NOT filled with reasons against his word, I'm against the out of context manipulation of scripture you have used to assert your argument, the funny thing is, I can make a MUCH more compelling argument for healing than you have so far, and without twisting scripture and pulling it out of context.

 

[Alithis]

You think in my years of agony Ive not asked that? Of course I have, the closest Ive gotten to a response is a vague "I'm not ready" sense from him, but its the only thing Ive gotten thats remotely in the realm of him answering.

I'm not arguing against the bible, Im arguing FOR the bible against your broken twisted theology. I BELIEVE in healing and I believe I have the RIGHT to it, but no where does it say I have the IMMEDIATE right to it. I have plenty of faith that god can heal me, I don't have faith that he won't, if I had faith that he wouldn't heal me I would have killed myself long ago, the pain I'm in is THAT BAD, but no, I stick it out BECAUSE I have faith that he is going to heal me. I'm just sick of waiting, 4 years of prayer and Ive not been healed, obviously there is a component other than faith, you know, this little thing called GODS TIMING.

I am NOT filled with reasons against his word, I'm against the out of context manipulation of scripture you have used to assert your argument, the funny thing is, I can make a MUCH more compelling argument for healing than you have so far, and without twisting scripture and pulling it out of context.

Believing ,Trusting, ... which of these two is broken twisted theology ?

no ones trying to make any compelling arguments .There's no need to. we have the promises of God in Christ Jesus .i understand your defensiveness .having believed for something that seemed impossible to my natural thinking for the better part of 40 years . but God is faithful and with revelation he came through Of course .
but faith calls those things which are not as though they already are .
.. and rests in he who makes them be .
Do you have an immediate right to salvation in Christ ? nope it is a gift
and in that gift is atonement .
and if we are removed from sin and it from us ..then nothing of the curse of sin has any right in us any more .

perhaps you should read all of your own posts objectively and get the over all essence of how it comes across ..it paints a picture of someone who is convinced that their problem is beyond god or that god does not love them enough or that god cant or wont or its not his time yet if that's the case when is his time for salvation ?- interesting he says NOW .
and all the reasoning is filled with "I" I'V done I'v tried I'm sick My pain me ..
let go and trust him and agree with him and just know .. say Amen .. instead of this but but but but ..

having said that im reminded why i enjoy this forum when it gets heated lol Because now i am feeling compelled to read the book of Deuteronomy - that's not as random to the topic as it sounds .there is something in there i need to learn obviously and tbh its been quite some time since i read it and longer still since i studied it ..

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I think he is referring to healing in a more general manner than specific illness, if he had already healed me WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.

Maybe because if he had we wouldn't have this conversation? Seriously, if he had already healed me we wouldn't have this conversation I WOULDN'T BE SICK, and neither would you ever suffer so much as a cold.

Faith says yes he CAN. Faith is acting on what he has said regardless of how it seems, it means I pray for healing, and when I don't get healed, I keep praying until he DOES heal me, and thats what I AM doing, but the fact I'm not healed does not automatically mean its MY fault, sometimes, god wants to wait, its narrow minded to assume because a person is sick its somehow there fault.

There is the issue.
You are still waiting for God to do something He has already done.
He has already saved us. Are we automatically saved? No. We have to believe. Same with healing. It does not automatically happen. You have to believe and thank Him for having already done.
As long as you contradict Him.. It is almost impossible for you to receive.
It is like denying the resurrection and then expecting to be born again.

 

[Alithis]

There is the issue.
You are still waiting for God to do something He has already done.
He has already saved us. Are we automatically saved? No. We have to believe. Same with healing. It does not automatically happen. You have to believe and thank Him for having already done.
As long as you contradict Him.. It is almost impossible for you to receive.
It is like denying the resurrection and then expecting to be born again.

yup ... of course that really difficult to do at the time that illness tries to descend upon us .. well it is for me lol ..
i cant speak for others but i ind there is always accompanying illness this forceful attitude that encourages me to seek self pity and to embrace and say ouhh iom sick im sick .. it is such a strong influence ..I have observed this a recently on the topic of being at dis-ease .. the opposite of being at ease . i strongly believe this is demonic influence ..the enemy desires us to receive illness .. and so often ,we do , to our shame perhaps?
and we do it without argument without any one convincing us to ..we just agree with the dis-ease and slump into a surrendered state ! its shocking really.

i find in me when this begins to happen i am tempted to do the same .. because in my heart (we are only tempted by what is in our heart) is a desire to be the center of attention and have every one feel sorry for me and treat me well -(yeh haha very self centered ) and the enemy uses that self desire to tempt me to receive what he has for me .. illness and dis-ease . because while i am in that state i become ineffectual to the furtherance of the gospel and sharing the love of god to others, because in illness we become inward looking .. poor me im sick poor me me me ..

David in the psalms shows us what to do ... we confront ourselves " for i believe an illness comes upon like when you get close to a fire (using an opposite analogy here ) its warmth is nice ..it tempts us by a desire to enjoy it more to draw nearer to it . what you ask ..! lol no illness is not nice like fire .. but the desire to be coddled and pampered is used to tempt us to "receive "own and confess the illness .

and no one argues against that type of receiving ..odd isnt it .
also when the illness comes it is not instantly there it arrives and increases .. so when we reject it and cast it off and confess trust in god and put our faith in him .. so it eases and we turn from a state of dis-ease ..to a state of ease .. when it is instant that is a gracious miracle ..but in most cases we reject the illness and confess Gods word instead and we "recover" and quickly ...

so when we sense this thing trying to come upon us and the enemy trying to tempt us to receive and embrace it we must challenge it .. David says .. why are you downcast oh my soul HOPE thous in the lord ...
he challenges the emotions and rules over them rather then submitting to them .. for if the mind and the emotions are subdued by the enemies desires .. the body will also submit and fall into dis-ease
but when the mind and emotions and heart ,by faith ,submit to Gods word (which is light and life ) the body also will instead receive the benefit of the LIFE and well being of god and recover and right itself in agreement with god who dwells within.. this is why most illnesses are demonically influenced. god does not curse(with illness) those made sinless by the blood of Christ .

(this is a bit hurried and rather incomplete but hope your getting my drift )

 

[Messy]

-

 

[TasManOfGod]

You think in my years of agony Ive not asked that? Of course I have, the closest Ive gotten to a response is a vague "I'm not ready" sense from him, but its the only thing Ive gotten thats remotely in the realm of him answering.

I'm not arguing against the bible, Im arguing FOR the bible against your broken twisted theology. I BELIEVE in healing and I believe I have the RIGHT to it, but no where does it say I have the IMMEDIATE right to it. I have plenty of faith that god can heal me, I don't have faith that he won't, if I had faith that he wouldn't heal me I would have killed myself long ago, the pain I'm in is THAT BAD, but no, I stick it out BECAUSE I have faith that he is going to heal me. I'm just sick of waiting, 4 years of prayer and Ive not been healed, obviously there is a component other than faith, you know, this little thing called GODS TIMING.

I am NOT filled with reasons against his word, I'm against the out of context manipulation of scripture you have used to assert your argument, the funny thing is, I can make a MUCH more compelling argument for healing than you have so far, and without twisting scripture and pulling it out of context.

If your way is not working perhaps you could try God's way

 

[CGL1023]

This is easy to say but rules out people like myself, I seek god, I love god, and Ive almost daily called on god to heal me of my recuring sickness, which keeps me from even working a job. For all practicle purposes I'm allergic to anything. If this verse is true, than anyone who needs glasses to see is choosing not to receive healing, if you need glasses, no amount of "choosing" life is going to change that, and sometime god allows us to go through struggles so we learn things. That passage in Deuteronomy is HORRIBLY out of context, god isn't talking to the modern christian, rather this is a specific conversation between god AND A CERTAIN group, to say this specifically applies to us is a GROSS misinterpetation of scripture. We can use that scripture to say that the character of God is one that would give life to his people if they choose it, but we CAN NOT say using that verse that its just there for us to grab if we want it, I assure you, if it was that easy to grab (or even extremely difficult for that matter) i would have been healed a long time ago.

This is easy to say but rules out people like myself, I seek god, I love god, and Ive almost daily called on god to heal me of my recuring sickness, which keeps me from even working a job. For all practicle purposes I'm allergic to anything.

That is a very heavy burden to bear. I will surely pray for you.

If this verse is true, than anyone who needs glasses to see is choosing not to receive healing, if you need glasses, no amount of "choosing" life is going to change that, and sometime god allows us to go through struggles so we learn things.

This verse is truth. This verse is an immutable truth; valid for all, in all places, at all times. Portions of the Old Covenant are no longer valid as of the Cross of Christ. We are redeemed from the curse of the law (of Moses). The book of Hebrews declares the Old Covenant to be inferior to the New Covenant.

That passage in Deuteronomy is HORRIBLY out of context, god isn't talking to the modern christian, rather this is a specific conversation between god AND A CERTAIN group, to say this specifically applies to us is a GROSS misinterpetation of scripture.

As mentioned, there are portions of the Old Covenant that no longer apply but this would not be one of them.

God is saying that you have complete freedom of choice and He is literaly begging us to 'choose life', i.e., align ourselves with Him.

We can use that scripture to say that the character of God is one that would give life to his people if they choose it, but we CAN NOT say using that verse that its just there for us to grab if we want it, I assure you, if it was that easy to grab (or even extremely difficult for that matter) i would have been healed a long time ago.

I agree with you that you could not recite this verse as a formula or ritual and get healed. The idea of the verse, as I see it, is to keep believers from torpedoing their stand by speaking negative, speaking doubt and speaking unbelief.

Recall that in Eph 6 after a discussion of the armor, we are told to "stand" and we will not be able to stand if we allow thoughts of doubt and unbelief.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Messy]

There is the issue.
You are still waiting for God to do something He has already done.
He has already saved us. Are we automatically saved? No. We have to believe. Same with healing. It does not automatically happen. You have to believe and thank Him for having already done.
As long as you contradict Him.. It is almost impossible for you to receive.
It is like denying the resurrection and then expecting to be born again.

I asked God this morning to heal me from something and He said: Take it and you have it. Made me think of when you're 1 year old you ask your dad for bread and he just gives you. Then when you're 40 you keep standing in front of the cupboard, asking, because you still believe you're 1 year old or that this is how it works.
And I would also go search for a good ministry to pray for me if I needed that too.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The inescapable fact is that God is the only Person who can bring healing. We can pray, claim, believe until the cows come home, but nothing will happen until God actually does it. There is a Scripture that says that the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Paul says that in everything he has learned to be content. Some say that Paul's thorn in the flesh was a physical condition that made him appear weak in front of the Corinthians, and they criticised him because they believed that a person who is filled with the Holy Spirit and moving in the gifts should not have had a physical condition like his. The arguments for that theory are quite convincing from what Paul wrote in 1 and 2 Corinthians. Obviously it was something he struggled with and asked God three times for it to be removed, and God said, "No. My grace is sufficient for you."

I don't think that anything can be gained by trying to twist God's arm up behind His back. Obviously, all your praying, begging, claiming and believing has not brought any results. God, being the compassionate Person He is, obviously has a good reason for not healing in the way you want Him to, and so continuing to beg, plead, bargain, claim and believe will be a lost cause.

Perhaps you need to come to the place of acceptance of your condition as it is now, and concentrate on knowing where you stand with Christ, receiving the peace of God that passes all understanding, and having joy in the midst of your affliction. Paul and Silas were whipped until the skin was shredded off their backs and then thrown into the Philippian jail. What was their reaction? They sang hymns and praised God, even in the midst of the agony they must have felt, and they didn't have painkillers to help them!

I am not belittling your condition or your struggles to try and overcome it. Use the medical resources that are available to you. It is not a lack of faith to do that, and using them will not hinder your recovery; they might actually improve your recovery.

 

[TasManOfGod]

The Cross represents the outpouring of God's grace. He has nothing left to give to get you healed
It is easy to fall into the enemy's trap of asking God for something more from Him whereas He is waiting for you to collect what He has already given you
"My people perish through lack of knowledge"

 

[Alithis]

I have just finished reading a very good book on depression. It is "Finding Hope Again" by Neil Anderson. He has written this book in conjunction with a Christian psychologist. It gives the medical as well as the spiritual side of depression.

This is not off topic, so don't worry.

There are no "quick fix" solutions to depression. There are different kinds of depression: developmental (childhood to adult; adult to middle age; middle age to old age), situational (loss of a loved one, parent, job, etc.), spiritual (fear of losing salvation, sin consciousness, fear of death, etc). Some can be treated by medical means, others by prayer ministry, others by counselling.

Neil Anderson can put all this much better than I can. Get the book and read it. It will help a lot.

Iv not heard of the book.. but i disagree re a quick fix..
deliverance is pretty instant and emotions can be ruled and if there be physical ailment contributing it to is fully heal-able.

i fully have faith in the Lord Jesus to lift any person up and out of depression it is no more difficult to him then raising the dead ..
the instance of being filled with the holy Ghost ..in that one event joy floods the being ..
i say this because of another thread some used the topic to promote an attitude of depression being some huge mountain that is somehow difficult for God to deal with in us .. but i know it is not .I am also convinced that on apersonal level that chemical medications are only suppressors ..not healers and as such are not the wisest course of action .

hope you don't misread where im coming from

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Iv not heard of the book.. but i disagree re a quick fix..
deliverance is pretty instant and emotions can be ruled and if there be physical ailment contributing it to is fully heal-able.

i fully have faith in the Lord Jesus to lift any person up and out of depression it is no more difficult to him then raising the dead ..
the instance of being filled with the holy Ghost ..in that one event joy floods the being ..
i say this because of another thread some used the topic to promote an attitude of depression being some huge mountain that is somehow difficult for God to deal with in us .. but i know it is not .I am also convinced that on apersonal level that chemical medications are only suppressors ..not healers and as such are not the wisest course of action .

hope you don't misread where im coming from

Of course not.

Depression always has a contributing cause; whether it is an imbalance of chemicals in the brain caused by extended stress, grief, anger or frustration, or whether it is the result of demon activity, the laying on of hands is just as effective. But, as I have said before, recovery is not instantaneous. It is a gradual process of getting well, but faster than what can be achieved through medical or counselling means.

After having a daughter go through a clinical depression which took over a year to overcome by prayer and faith, I learned that it was not a quick fix at all. There was a lot of garbage in her mind caused by school bullying, the death of 5 of her classmates in a flash flood at an outdoor education activity (You might have heard of the Elim students and teacher who died at that time. They were my daughter's classmates and she and I went to all 6 funerals. Even I felt depressed after that!).

In dealing with the depression, that garbage had to be dealt with. So her recovery was a mixture of the effectual fervent prayers on my part, medication and consultations with psychiatrist and time in a rehab centre on her part. We used all the resources available and it paid off, because she is now well on the other side of it.

One big key for me is that I had to learn to be positive in what I said to her. What made things turn a corner was when I wanted to write and encourage her and I asked the Lord what He wanted me to write. He said, "Don't write about the problems. Write about how proud you are of her, and how you believe she has the strength to succeed." She was so helped by the letter that she put it up on the wall beside her bed and every time she felt down she read the letter and that encouraged her.

The psychologist who co-wrote Neil Anderson's book says that he has not found a depressed person that did not have form of bitterness. I found that very interesting.

Also, trying to cast a demon out of a depressed person would not help, because it would have the opposite effect to affirming the person as being in a right place with God and assuring them that they are sick and not depressed as the result of some sin that might have invited the demon in.

The Psalmist suffered from the depression. You can see it in his writings. Some of the greatest saints of God suffered from it as well, and it drove them deeper into God than they otherwise would have gone.

I wish I had Neil Anderson's book when we had to work through my daughter's clinical depression. I'm sure that we would have been of much better help than what we were at the time.

 

[Alithis]

recently (a week ago) we were visited by the folks who run the oasis orphanage in the Philippines .. they had a young lady who was deeply traumatized by hurricane haiyun(yolander) (the very same my wife and baby were in the eye of, but the lord Kept them according to his word .) this young lady was terrified and had tied herself to a tree and resigned herself t death .. her friend went to her and untied her and dragged her to safety (literally saved her life ) as she lost the will to live .
the friend (relative?) was a house um from the orphanage and took her back there with them . she was in a totally traumatized state .would not talk or really do anything ..she just seemed resigned to die .it was very sad and awful.
they had one of their worship meetings and this young lady was prayed for and she fell down under the Spirit of God ..
when she got up she was transformed .. laughing and smiling . she said when they prayed ,light had filled her being and saturated her in the peace of God and she did not feel afraid any more only peace and joy and love . she got saved and follows the Lord Jesus now
oh that we would all follow him who can do All things .

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

recently (a week ago) we were visited by the folks who run the oasis orphanage in the Philippines .. they had a young lady who was deeply traumatized by hurricane haiyun(yolander) (the very same my wife and baby were in the eye of, but the lord Kept them according to his word .) this young lady was terrified and had tied herself to a tree and resigned herself t death .. her friend went to her and untied her and dragged her to safety (literally saved her life ) as she lost the will to live .
the friend (relative?) was a house um from the orphanage and took her back there with them . she was in a totally traumatized state .would not talk or really do anything ..she just seemed resigned to die .it was very sad and awful.
they had one of their worship meetings and this young lady was prayed for and she fell down under the Spirit of God ..
when she got up she was transformed .. laughing and smiling . she said when they prayed ,light had filled her being and saturated her in the peace of God and she did not feel afraid any more only peace and joy and love . she got saved and follows the Lord Jesus now
oh that we would all follow him who can do All things .

Great post. I go along with that completely!

 

[Merlin]

Keep in mind that a chemical imbalance is just a symptom.
As such it can be healed instantly

 

[Merlin]

Often what we experience as dis-ease is just a symptom created by the body.
The disease itself often does not show any symptoms.
Command the body to stop dis-easeing in Jesus name and it will obey.
This applies to mental dis-ease as well.
Chemical imbalance is just a symptom which can be removed instantly.

 

[Alithis]

Often what we experience as dis-ease is just a symptom created by the body.
The disease itself often does not show any symptoms.
Command the body to stop dis-easeing in Jesus name and it will obey.
This applies to mental dis-ease as well.
Chemical imbalance is just a symptom which can be removed instantly.

i agree . and let us never forget ..the greatest bandage & ointment we can ever and MUST apply ..is LOVE