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I see that now in the Panachida - I likely had blinders on, thank you. Would that be proper to do so for non-Orthodox who have fallen outside of the Church? Just as I wouldn't add their name to Commemoration, I'm unsure here.
Basically, we die. When we die, our souls get a foretaste of the life to come which is basically either rest, or torment - sometimes when someone's passed away we'll refer to them as having "fallen asleep" i.e. "Fr John has fallen asleep in the Lord". This is temporary and, from what I remember, more or less based on the condition of one's soul when you died. We're in this temporary state until the Second Coming when the Lord resurrects the dead which means that your soul is now reunited with your body (part of why we're against cremation). At some point we'll have the Last Judgement. Everything else beyond that basically comes down to mystery, or theological opinion, but there are some things that we know just aren't so and the West's idea of purgatory just isn't one of them.T
My understanding is whilst orthodox dont accept purgatory , what happens is left as a mystery, so undefined? Is that true?
Do orthodox pray for the dead? And in what sense do they consider such prayer is useful or has efficacy?
Basically, we die. When we die, our souls get a foretaste of the life to come which is basically either rest, or torment - sometimes when someone's passed away we'll refer to them as having "fallen asleep" i.e. "Fr John has fallen asleep in the Lord". This is temporary and, from what I remember, more or less based on the condition of one's soul when you died. We're in this temporary state until the Second Coming when the Lord resurrects the dead which means that your soul is now reunited with your body (part of why we're against cremation). At some point we'll have the Last Judgement. Everything else beyond that basically comes down to mystery, or theological opinion, but there are some things that we know just aren't so and the West's idea of purgatory just isn't one of them.
We pray for the dead partly to help them out in the afterlife and partly for our own comfort because generally we miss relatives and friends after we die. Part of the story of St Xenia of St Petersburg says that her husband, who was an Imperial Russian Army officer, had died in a not-so-good spiritual state. Being a good widow and good saint she prayed for his soul for decades. After decades of praying for his soul, the Lord revealed to her that his soul was saved due to her prayers.
I recollect hearing orthodox Ecumenical bishop Kallistos Ware saying that if purgatory is viewed as more of a hospital, emphasis on healing, and less of a prison we are not so far apart?
The thing about Purgatory is that it stems from the West's concept of original sin and the guilt of Adam's sin that goes with it.Thanks.
I think people assume too much about purgatory. The church has little to say dogmatically Other than most of us are not pure enough, so there is a purgation. A temporary state where prayer is effective.
I recollect hearing orthodox Ecumenical bishop Kallistos Ware saying that if purgatory is viewed as more of a hospital, emphasis on healing, and less of a prison we are not so far apart?
We don't have a need for it and I'm sure the Church Fathers between then and how have likely written extensively to refute it.
we do pray for the dead. St Paul also does it.
All the time.Cite? Would you pray to a living Christian?
Cite? Would you pray to a living Christian?
Matthew 22:32
1 Timothy 2:1
"There is one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ."
Supplications and prayers made FOR all men, not TO all men.
"There is one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ."
I agree, “for all men” & why did you think otherwise? What about the valley of the dry bones in Ezekiel 37 & the Lord praying for Lazarus in John 11?
2 Timothy 1:16-18. Onesiphorus had already been martyred prior to St Paul writing the letter.
and yes, all the time. anytime you ask someone to pray for you, you are praying to them.
Paul isn't praying to Onesiphorus there, he is asking God to have mercy on him.
indeed. you quoted me saying St Paul does pray for the dead in post 28 and you asked me to cite. so, I did and pointed out that Onesiphorus historically had already died.
and another link that doesn't go into the source material and doesn't go into any context from the time.
no references to any old Synaxarion, no references to the lines of bishops, no references to any of the ancient histories.
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