Edit. Didn't realise there was bad language in the post (posted it without headphones stupidly trusting self) but the vid scene was from taxi driver "you talking to me".
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Prayer....
- Thread starter GrowingSmaller
- Start date
Would he not have been better off praying with St Francis of Assisi:
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
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The thread idea was some say prayer doesn't work. But there is a big difference between "taxi driver" mentality and St Francis'.
Sorry again for the bad speech in the vid, see edited OP.
So there is a moral dimension to prayer. Praying "peace" is at least part of a mental script for a spiritual attitude.
Sorry again for the bad speech in the vid, see edited OP.
So there is a moral dimension to prayer. Praying "peace" is at least part of a mental script for a spiritual attitude.
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zephcom
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Over the decades I've not seen any evidence that prayer works.
Of course I've seen a LOT of people making excuses for God when their prayers don't work, but I just don't recall any which did work.
Strangely enough, I have noticed that the Karma aspect of living life like Jesus taught has resulted in others behaving better toward me. That is interesting now that I think about it.
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gaara4158
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The only thing I can see prayer doing a good job of is helping you calm yourself, and even that doesn’t outperform other methods, even prayer to other gods.
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So there is no difference between repeating "Lord, make me an instrument of your peace" and for instance "You talkin to me?" You talking to me?"
Surely, even if the effects are only in forming attitude.,..
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What about a cognitive frame of reference...
e.g. "Your kingdom come" puts one in relation to a King and a Kingdom, imaginary or real.
Where as "God is dead" puts one in another frame of mind, especially if spoken to a believer.
All this has RW effects.
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Tell me, if the brain lights up differently when praying (ie when being scanned) then how is prayer epiphenomenal?
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zephcom
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No difference.
Jesus tells us how to become an instrument of peace in His teachings. Those teachings do not include sitting on one's back side waiting for the 'Lord' to do the heavy lifting.
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ThievingMagpie
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Assuming you're American, because your constitution doesn't allow you to prioritise a particular religion.
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YOU cant say "Lord, do the washing up" for example. But prayer created a mindset one takes to the social world.
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And yet, I see everyday americans discussions on economic policy here, referred back to the bible....
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