Prayer works?

[Always in His Presence]

Do you think the U.S. success in freeing Europe from the onslaught of tyranny was not the result of prayer to God from people of faith?

IMHO - It was not the result of prayers, though prayers were very much needed for peace of mind and wisdom - but it was the result of people of faith ACTING on their beliefs and putting others needs before their own - even to the point of dying.

 

[Clare73]

IMHO - It was not the result of prayers, though prayers were very much needed for peace of mind and wisdom - but
it was the result of people of faith ACTING on their beliefs and putting others needs before their own - even to the point of dying.

None of which guaranteed our victory, as "people acting" did not guarantee the victory of our enemies, of which victory there is none apart from the will of God, which he would have us pray down in our battle.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Psalm 122:6
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem:
“May they prosper who love you.

Should we interpret that we should stop praying, or that it is not God's will for peace?

You mistake the nature of a question, I ask, and you answer.

 

[Clare73]

Then there is this instruction in Scripture:

Psalm 122:6
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem:
“May they prosper who love you.

Should we interpret that we should stop praying, or that it is not God's will for peace?

Unless the peace of Jerusalem includes the Messiah, the Prince of Peace, whom they reject.

Or do we realize God will not circumvent man's will.

Either God is sovereign (Da 4:35), or he is not.
And if he is, his will is always done, in his using man's disobedience to accomplish his purposes (Ge 50:20, Ro 9:22-23).

 

[Always in His Presence]

You mistake the nature of a question, I ask, and you answer.

You mistake the nature of an answer it seems. - I gave you the scriptural answer - I'm sorry you do not like the answer - but it is a valid answer.

 

[Always in His Presence]

None of which guaranteed our victory, as "people acting" did not guarantee the victory of our enemies, of which victory there is none apart from the will of God, which he would have us pray down in our battle.

If God is Sovereign (I believe He is - just not the way you do) -

why did Israel have a king, when God expressly said no -

Why was Jesus lamenting over Jerusalem?

Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!​

​

Why doesn't everyone come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.​

 

[Clare73]

If God is Sovereign (I believe He is - just not the way you do) -

Sovereign means all that occurs is by his ordination for his purpose, including the fall of Adam.

why did Israel have a king, when God expressly said no?

Why did God tell Pharaoh to let his people go when he expressly hardened his heart so he would not (Ex 4:21-22)?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Why did God tell Pharaoh to let his people go when he expressly hardened his heart so he would not (Ex 4:21-22)?

Good question. In the OT God certainly did harden Pharaoh’s heart. And Israel was delivered by Gods own hand.

And in the New Tratiment it plainly states that God is not willing that any should perish.

Yet against His will people perish daily.

 

[Clare73]

Good question. In the OT God certainly did harden Pharaoh’s heart. And Israel was delivered by Gods own hand.

And in the New Tratiment it plainly states that God is not willing that any should perish.

Yet against His will people perish daily.

Like God "willed" that Pharaoh let his people go (Ex 4:22). . .
but his secret will (Dt 29:29, Jn 21:22, Mt 24:36, Ac 17:30, 2 Co 12:4, Rev 10:4, Da 12:4) was. . .(Ex 4:21).

Nothing is contrary to God's secret will.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Like God "willed" that Pharaoh let his people go. . .

you are avoiding the answer -

If, God's sovereignty, His will is always done - and the Scriptures plainly state the God is not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance -

Why do so many perish and not come to repentance? Which is against His will that some think is ALWAYS done.

 

[Always in His Presence]

As for the topic of this thread - unequivocally yes - prayer works​

 

[Clare73]

you are avoiding the answer -

If, God's sovereignty, His will is always done - and the Scriptures plainly state the God is not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance -

Why do so many perish and not come to repentance? Which is against His will that some think is ALWAYS done.

See post #29. If you have any questions, let me know.

 

[Always in His Presence]

See post #29. If you have any questions, let me know.

I have a question - why are you ignoring my repeated question?

If you don't know - that's ok - it might be an area for you to study and consider.

Because there is no such thing as a secret will of God - that is not scriptural:

Romans 2:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.​

Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,

 

[Clare73]

I have a question - why are you ignoring my repeated question?

you are avoiding the answer -

If, God's sovereignty, His will is always done - and the Scriptures plainly state the God is not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance -

Why do so many perish and not come to repentance? Which is against His will that some think is ALWAYS done.

Post #29 is the Biblical answer to your question.
If you need an explanation of the answer, let me know.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Because there is no such thing as a secret will of God - that is not scriptural

Are you sure that the idea of God having secrets (which would constitute a secret will) is not scriptural?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Romans 2:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,

Are you sure that the idea of God having secrets (which would constitute a secret will) is not scriptural?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Post #29 is the Biblical answer to your question.
If you need an explanation of the answer, let me know.

Yeah - explain the question I have asked a number of times - but you continue to ignore -

Explain this please:

If, God's sovereignty, His will is always done - and the Scriptures plainly state the God is not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance -

Why do so many perish and not come to repentance? Which is against His will that some think is ALWAYS done.

Or are you agreeing with post 29 that God's will is not always done?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

@hislegacy consider this passage,

(Deuteronomy 29:29 ESV) "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.​

 

[Always in His Presence]

@hislegacy consider this passage,

(Deuteronomy 29:29 ESV) "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.​

@Xeno of Athens. Correct, but we don’t live in the Old Testament

That is why there is a difference between your position and mine.

I live in the New Testament, not only do I know the will of God, but I am told to prove what that perfect will is.

The thread is still in prayer? Right?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

@Xeno of Athens. Correct, but we don’t live in the Old Testament

Consider this verse -

(Matthew 24:36 ESV) "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.​