Prayer Mt 18

[Clizby WampusCat]

Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you
loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth
about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or
three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” Mt 18:19-20 ESV

When are at least two Christians going to get together and pray about getting rid of Covid-19?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Well, clearly such prayers have not taken into account the will of God.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you
loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth
about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or
three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” Mt 18:19-20 ESV

When are at least two Christians going to get together and pray about getting rid of Covid-19?

I already dealt with this in a previous Apologetics thread here on CF that I put out not so long ago.

At least Matt tried to consider a context....!

This isn't to say, however, that Christians aren't or shouldn't pray for the recovery of those who fall sick from Covid-19.

 

[HTacianas]

Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you
loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth
about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or
three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” Mt 18:19-20 ESV

When are at least two Christians going to get together and pray about getting rid of Covid-19?

That is not what that means. It is a "church order" command giving the apostles the authority to make binding decisions for the Church. It has been handed down through their successors much the same as the apostles' authority to forgive sins.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

That is not what that means. It is a "church order" command giving the apostles the authority to make binding decisions for the Church. It has been handed down through their successors much the same as the apostles' authority to forgive sins.

Right, why is your interpretation correct? Other Christians will disagree with you on this.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I already dealt with this in a previous Apologetics thread here on CF that I put out not so long ago.

At least Matt tried to consider a context....!

This isn't to say, however, that Christians aren't or shouldn't pray for the recovery of those who fall sick from Covid-19.

You didn't deal with it, all you said is that it does not mean what it says with no justification for that.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Clizby WampusCat, post: 74808440, member: 420857"]Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you
loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth
about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or
three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” Mt 18:19-20 ESV

When are at least two Christians going to get together and pray about getting rid of Covid-19?

[/QUOTE
============================
We overcame it already. Not even challenging.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Right, why is your interpretation correct? Other Christians will disagree with you on this.

Why worry?

 

[HTacianas]

Right, why is your interpretation correct? Other Christians will disagree with you on this.

Because it has always been known. The apostles gathered together at the Council of Jerusalem to resolve the dispute as to whether gentile converts needed to be circumcised. That, along with the other great Councils, was done with the full authority of Jesus Christ. Another such decision was the canonization of the Christian bible.

Any "interpretation" to the contrary leads to a logical absurdity. If two Christians gather in El Paso and decide that adultery is okay, but two Christians in Harrisburg decide that it is not, there is no truth there.

Controversies and disputes in the Church have always been resolved by Councils and Synods. They are not merely the "interpretation" of a layman.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Why worry?

That is OK if you don't want to answer.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That is OK if you don't want to answer.

I answered in previous post.

Also see>
Linus Pauling
paulingblog.wordpress.com
Linus Carl Pauling was an American chemist, biochemist, chemical engineer, peace activist, author, and educator. He published more than 1,200 papers and books, of which about 850 dealt with scientific topics. New Scientist called him one of the 20 greatest scientists of all time, and as of 2000, he was rated the 16th most important scientist in history.Wikipedia
Born:Linus Carl Pauling, Feb 28, 1901, Portland, Oregon, U.S.
Died:Aug 19, 1994, Big Sur, California, U.S.
Nationality:American

Vitamin C, Linus Pauling was right all along. A doctor's ...
[Search domain www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154] Vitamin C, Linus Pauling was right all along. A doctor's opinion
Here is an article written by Dr Hilary Roberts about Linus Pauling and his views on vitamin C. ... to have won two unshared Nobel Prizes, the first for Chemistry (1954) and the second for peace ...

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Because it has always been known. The apostles gathered together at the Council of Jerusalem to resolve the dispute as to whether gentile converts needed to be circumcised. That, along with the other great Councils, was done with the full authority of Jesus Christ. Another such decision was the canonization of the Christian bible.

Any "interpretation" to the contrary leads to a logical absurdity. If two Christians gather in El Paso and decide that adultery is okay, but two Christians in Harrisburg decide that it is not, there is no truth there.

Controversies and disputes in the Church have always been resolved by Councils and Synods. They are not merely the "interpretation" of a layman.

Most disputes are resolved by fracturing the congregation. This is why there are many denominations all claiming the truth and many basing it on the bible. Who is correct?

And also, if a layman cannot know what the bibles says then salvation is not available to all at anytime.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I answered in previous post.

No, you just said in the previous post it has been dealt with. Which it has not since Christians cannot agree on what it says.

Also see>
Linus Pauling
paulingblog.wordpress.com
Linus Carl Pauling was an American chemist, biochemist, chemical engineer, peace activist, author, and educator. He published more than 1,200 papers and books, of which about 850 dealt with scientific topics. New Scientist called him one of the 20 greatest scientists of all time, and as of 2000, he was rated the 16th most important scientist in history.Wikipedia
Born:Linus Carl Pauling, Feb 28, 1901, Portland, Oregon, U.S.
Died:Aug 19, 1994, Big Sur, California, U.S.
Nationality:American

Vitamin C, Linus Pauling was right all along. A doctor's ...
[Search domain www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154] Vitamin C, Linus Pauling was right all along. A doctor's opinion
Here is an article written by Dr Hilary Roberts about Linus Pauling and his views on vitamin C. ... to have won two unshared Nobel Prizes, the first for Chemistry (1954) and the second for peace ...

What does this have to do with Mt 18?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No, you just said in the previous post it has been dealt with. Which it has not since Christians cannot agree on what it says.


What does this have to do with Mt 18?

Depends on who you listen to, eh ?

There is only perfect harmony in Yahweh, in Christ Jesus, so it is best to listen to Jesus.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Depends on who you listen to, eh ?

There is only perfect harmony in Yahweh, in Christ Jesus, so it is best to listen to Jesus.

Just more circular logic. Give sufficient evidence that Jesus is god and how to listen to him and maybe I would.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Covid-19?

THIS was already taken care of, depending on who you listen to of course. Truth or dare ? Who is right ? Find out - it is worth it, to be saved(healed).

But not even God can coerce anyone to be saved. It must be willingly and with devotion and joy.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just more circular logic. Give sufficient evidence that Jesus is god and how to listen to him and maybe I would.

If you do not hear Him, DO NOT listen to Him. Simple.

 

[cloudyday2]

That is not what that means. It is a "church order" command giving the apostles the authority to make binding decisions for the Church. It has been handed down through their successors much the same as the apostles' authority to forgive sins.

@HTacianas and @2PhiloVoid , in the old thread linked by @2PhiloVoid ( At least Matt tried to consider a context....! ) he uses the analogy of a rubbing a genie's magic lamp to get whatever you want from God as long as 2 or 3 are asking in agreement.

I agree that this verse is saying that the decisions of church government are endorsed by Jesus and the Father. But isn't that another example of rubbing a genie's magic lamp except that the people doing the rubbing are church authorities rather than ordinary parishioners? How is that any better really? God is reduced to a genie slavishly endorsing whatever ridiculous decision a church government might reach. Of course we would hope that the promised spiritual presence of Jesus among them might inspire the church authorities to make righteous decisions, but we have had so much disorder in the church hierarchy over the past 2000 years that we might have our doubts.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

but we have had so much disorder in the church hierarchy over the past 2000 years that we might have our doubts.

And where, meanwhile, are the disciples who abide in Jesus as one, one with Jesus and with the Father , as written ?
Where are the permanent disciples continually full of peace and joy and righteousness, as written ?
Where are the permanent disciples of which OTHERS SAY - look at them > they have been with Jesus ..... yes, where are these disciples ?

(China home, underground , persecuted fellowships for one)

 

[HTacianas]

Most disputes are resolved by fracturing the congregation. This is why there are many denominations all claiming the truth and many basing it on the bible. Who is correct?

And also, if a layman cannot know what the bibles says then salvation is not available to all at anytime.

The idea of a layman having a bible is only recent. The bible has been published at large for several hundred years. But it has not been widely available due mainly to cost. Aside from that, literacy among the public, at least in the United States, has only been widespread for 100 years or so.

If a layman needed a bible to be saved, salvation itself would be a new thing.