Praise to the Man!

happyinhisgrace said:

I can appreciate your awareness of the Temple endowment, but it is far, far from understanding it.

I get the impression that you presume to know my understanding of it. Maybe you could tell me what "my" understanding is and I can tell you if you are correct.

Love in Christ Jesus,
Grace

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I have no clue what your understanding is. It is the misunderstandings I see. And I would discuss them in terms of basics by PM, not in open forum.

happyinhisgrace said:

And what of my other question?

I am assuming by this you mean your question about what did I think about during the lds sacrement in church service?

I thought of the lds Jesus of course. That is up until the end of my tenure as a Mormon. Important to note also that the lds services are 3 hours long and the sacrement is only 15 min. of that time. The other 2hr. and 45 min. are usually spent recieving lessons and talks on tithing, temples, prophets, food storage, the BofM, the church itself and church attendance. Jesus is definitly NOT the focus of an LDS church service. He is mentioned in passing and often as a side thought but he is definitly not the focus. Even the teaching manuals show this, focussing on the prophets, their lives and teachings and quotes from them.

I wanted to ask you, you said you had been lds for over 40 years...were you raised in the LDS church?

God Bless,
Grace

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Yes, born and raise as a member in So. Cal. I was converted however during a personal trial on my mission in Argentina.

I want to respond to the remainder of this post, but sleep beckons. to be continued.

God Bless!

"Yes, Jesus did not hold back the truth, but I don't think you mean to equate your self and your abilities to understand truth as Jesus does. He is most qualified to do so."
I would never try to put myself on the same level as Jesus, he is God and I am not, nor will I ever be. There is but one and only one God...yesterday, today and forever and that is the triune God of the Bible. And yes, of course Jesus is qualified to to understand truth because he "made" truth, he IS truth. But, he also also lined out the truth we need to know in his Holy Word, the Bible. Do I understand everything that Jesus does, of course not, if I did...I would be God and no one but God himself fits that role but the Bible is there for a reason and we are told in that very Bible that we are to test what we hear and see if it stands up to the Word of God. We are to proclaim the truths in God's word. It is not a huge concept. We don't invent the truth, we are just called to proclaim it and correct error. It is not at all hard to read the Word of God and see the differences between the truth of the Bible and the falsehoods of LDS teachings and other non-biblical teachings for that matter. One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to do so. It only requires a desire for truth and a willingness to let God lead you.

So, when I say that I feel led to speak of the truth of God and the falsehoods of other beliefs, that is what I am saying. I am not claiming equal understanding with God, that would be heresy to do so.

I can in a way see how as a firm LDS believer, you would not understand this because it is engrained into the lds that they are persicuted for their beliefs and whenever someone speaks against those beliefs, they are "bashing" them on a very personal level but I do not see that as the case. For example, I am most assuradlly "anti-Mormonism" but I am not "anti-Mormon"...meaning I believe heart and soul that the lds "gospel" is a false gospel that is not of God but that has absolutly no baring on how I feel about the LDS "people". It seems sometimes that Mormons can't seperate the 2 because the lds belief is not only a religion but it is a culture all of it's own. Which I am quite sure you understand what I mean by that and I don't need to go into it.

God Bless,
Grace

The covenants and promises are for our eternal progression."

Actually that is just what I said in my previous post in regards to things one learns in the LDS temple (aka progression to godhood). I can go into detail about the whole "meaning" behind the lds temples if you like but from what you said, it didn't appear that you wanted that to be discussed. To really tell the open truth about it and discuss it in detail, you would have to discuss the rituals (cerimonies) and I don't think that is something you want to do? Or am I wrong?

God Bless,
Grace

Although you no longer believe in them, you should at least have enough respect for those you knew as friends, or even family members to whom you love to not mock or make public the sacred things of the Temple. That would be common courtesy in my opinion.

My respect and loyality is in the and for the Lord. I do love my lds friends and family but nothing like I love my Savior; what they hold sacred (the temple cermony), I hold to be blastfamous and worship of a false God and I can not in good conscience agree to such things. Do I run up and down the streets yelling the oaths taken in the lds temple, heavens no. But in certain situations, the need arises for discussion of them to be made public and this thread seems to call that need forth.

Ephesians 5:11 Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather expose them.

God Bless,
Grace

My answers are only personal conjecture, taken from a multitude of sources, and pieceing them together. I may be wrong, I do not know.
We do believe that Jesus Christ was the Jehovah of the Old Testament, though people still worshiped God, THROUGH Christ.
I know I may be confusing, but I try to answer the questions, as best as I can. Sorry if I am confusing you.

happiness:
The focus of all LDS meetings is Christ, as the focus of the Church is Christ, without that focus, we are lost. We may mention other things, such as the BoM, D&C, etc., but they all pretain to Christ. If you learned nothing else as a Mormon, you should have at least learned that much.

fatboys said:

Grace, from your description of your experiences in the Temple, I can tell you that you have misunderstood and have meanings very wrong. The covenants and promises are for our eternal progression. They are commitments we make and promise to make and keep under all circumstances. If you have been throught the Temple, you were given the freedom of choice to make these promises or not. You accepted them and now have denounced them. Although you no longer believe in them, you should at least have enough respect for those you knew as friends, or even family members to whom you love to not mock or make public the sacred things of the Temple. That would be common courtesy in my opinion.

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I'm puzzled. I read grace's post and saw no mocking. I saw a brief listing the activities. How do you define mocking?

MormonFriend said:

Yes, born and raise as a member in So. Cal. I was converted however during a personal trial on my mission in Argentina.

I want to respond to the remainder of this post, but sleep beckons. to be continued.

God Bless!

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Wait a minute here. You were converted ON, or during your mission to Argentina? Do you not have to go thru the endowment ceremony before you start you mission? And don't you have to be temple worthy and have a temple recommend to even do that? And to get those, don't you have to be converted before? To be blunt, did you go thru the temple with false pretenses?

Or, did you go thru the motions before the mission because of family tradition and church pressure? You grew up in the mormon church so you just went thru the motions and went on the mission because you were expected to? I don't hold that against you, many teenagers have a hard time resisting peer and family pressure to do things you don't want to do. You would just be normal.

Wrigley said:

Wait a minute here. You were converted ON, or during your mission to Argentina? Do you not have to go thru the endowment ceremony before you start you mission? And don't you have to be temple worthy and have a temple recommend to even do that? And to get those, don't you have to be converted before? To be blunt, did you go thru the temple with false pretenses?

Or, did you go thru the motions before the mission because of family tradition and church pressure? You grew up in the mormon church so you just went thru the motions and went on the mission because you were expected to? I don't hold that against you, many teenagers have a hard time resisting peer and family pressure to do things you don't want to do. You would just be normal.

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FB: I will respond for many who have faith to go on a mission, and then have experiences which seals the faith of their conversion. Everyone at some time or another has to stand on their own faith. Many times this happens before they go on missions, and sometimes after. A person can know that it is right, but not be truely converted. I suppose that it is like knowing that God is real through faith, and then seeing him face to face. Not that this happens at conversion, but many times the experience is such a witness that the person can not know any more that God is real in faith than if they really saw God in person. There was not false pretenses of a person growing in knowledge and faith. My nephew just went through the Temple, and in his heart he knows that the church was restored, but when you teach the gospel 24/7, and live close to the spirit for two years, this experience solidifies the conversion process. Now for those who go on missions because it was expected of them. Sometimes they see the light of the gospel and other times the experience is just empty for them. That it because they are not close enough to the Lord to learn from these spiritual experiences. I was older when I went on a mission, and I went because I had several spiritual experiences which brought me from the dark into the light. Others who go on missions don't have to go through these stages, for their testimonies have been built from their childhood. I wish that I could say that.

MormonFriend said:

I am not asking the moderator, I am asking you, out of courtesy and respect, to do so for me, not for this group. I will have a very difficult time having any respect for anything else you might have to offer without your "choosing the right when a choice is placed before you." Yes, Jesus did not hold back the truth, but I don't think you mean to equate your self and your abilities to understand truth as Jesus does. He is most qualified to do so.

I would love to have discussion over your experiences. I can learn a lot, and maybe you also.

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Hi! My Temple name was Naomi (First Sign of the Aaronic Priesthood with token). And I was a temple attending Mormon until the day God led me out of the sure path to hell. Praise the Lord. When you say "discuss" does that mean YOU tell YOUR story and refuse to hear ours (I am bearing my testimony and will say no more?)

calgal said:

Hi! My Temple name was Naomi (First Sign of the Aaronic Priesthood with token). And I was a temple attending Mormon until the day God led me out of the sure path to hell. Praise the Lord. When you say "discuss" does that mean YOU tell YOUR story and refuse to hear ours (I am bearing my testimony and will say no more?)

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"Naomi", one of my dearest friends (who has also left the lies of the LDS church to come to Christ) was given that same name in the lds temple. Weren't you shocked when you found out that every female that attended the particular temple you were in on that day were all given the same "temple name". Leads to many thoughts of a husband calling forth his wife from the grave on ressurection day and 500 Naomi's showing up in front of him. hehe

I am sure I am going to get slammed by the LDS on this list for mentioning that little tid bit but wow, I was so suprised to learn that they pass the same name out to everyone who attends that day.

Love in Christ Jesus,
Grace

happyinhisgrace said:

"Naomi", one of my dearest friends (who has also left the lies of the LDS church to come to Christ) was given that same name in the lds temple. Weren't you shocked when you found out that every female that attended the particular temple you were in on that day were all given the same "temple name". Leads to many thoughts of a husband calling forth his wife from the grave on ressurection day and 500 Naomi's showing up in front of him. hehe

I am sure I am going to get slammed by the LDS on this list for mentioning that little tid bit but wow, I was so suprised to learn that they pass the same name out to everyone who attends that day.

Love in Christ Jesus,
Grace

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Grace,

That was something that really upset me when I found out the names were NOT unique. My friends who are now pagan, chose their OWN new names. Now, they are still on the same downward spiral but.... I sort of wonder why the Mormon wife HAS to share HER new name and the husband does NOT.

emerald Dragon said:

happiness:
The focus of all LDS meetings is Christ, as the focus of the Church is Christ, without that focus, we are lost. We may mention other things, such as the BoM, D&C, etc., but they all pretain to Christ. If you learned nothing else as a Mormon, you should have at least learned that much.

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emerald dragon-

Like I said before, the focus is not on Jesus...it is on temple work, temple attendance, tithing to the church, having and rearing families, obeying the LDS priesthood, the prophets of the lds church (past and present), church attendance, food storage, studying the BofM, obeying the WoW. Jesus is only mentioned as a side thought, he is NEVER the focus. One can mearly attend an lds sacrement to see this for themselves and if they really want to be disapointed at the lack of worship of the Lord, they can attend the other 2 meetings.

In fact, the desire for church to be a focus on Jesus is one of the things that lead me out of the LDS church (thanks to my bishop at the time who suggested that I read the BofM AGAIN and then gave in when I said I would rather focus on the NT and Jesus himself) but that is another story that I may share at another time.

It will be a beautiful day when I kneal at the feet of my savior and worship him and thank him for bringing me out of the falsehoods of the LDS church and into the loving arms of his truth. Praise God, he is so wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!

God Bless,
Grace

calgal said:

Grace,

That was something that really upset me when I found out the names were NOT unique. My friends who are now pagan, chose their OWN new names. Now, they are still on the same downward spiral but.... I sort of wonder why the Mormon wife HAS to share HER new name and the husband does NOT.

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It's a form of control my dear

Let's just thank God that we know now that we only need Jesus to get to heaven and not an earthly man. As the "Good Book" says:

John 8:32 And you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.

Isn't it wonderful to be free in Christ now? whoo hoo! I get all excited at the whole concept of his mercy and love for us.

God Bless,
Grace

Wrigley said:

Wait a minute here. You were converted ON, or during your mission to Argentina? Do you not have to go thru the endowment ceremony before you start you mission? And don't you have to be temple worthy and have a temple recommend to even do that? And to get those, don't you have to be converted before? To be blunt, did you go thru the temple with false pretenses?

Or, did you go thru the motions before the mission because of family tradition and church pressure? You grew up in the mormon church so you just went thru the motions and went on the mission because you were expected to? I don't hold that against you, many teenagers have a hard time resisting peer and family pressure to do things you don't want to do. You would just be normal.

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FatBoys gave an answer that well discribes my experience.
Faith and understanding is a growing process. My original statement was to a former LDS, who should have understood my thought.

I suppose you could say I had natural doubts before my mission, but believed well enough to commit two years to a mission. I now have a knowledge that can only be erased by disobedience, or unrepented sin.

FYI, if intereseted, a verse in the Book of Mormon mirrors this growth of faith and conversion.

19 And there were many whose faith was so exceedingly strong, even before Christ came, who could not be kept from within the veil, but truly saw with their eyes the things which they had beheld with an eye of faith, and they were glad. (Book of Mormon | Ether12:19)

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MormonFriend said:

FatBoys gave an answer that well discribes my experience.
Faith and understanding is a growing process. My original statement was to a former LDS, who should have understood my thought.

I suppose you could say I had natural doubts before my mission, but believed well enough to commit two years to a mission. I now have a knowledge that can only be erased by disobedience, or unrepented sin.

FYI, if intereseted, a verse in the Book of Mormon mirrors this growth of faith and conversion.

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Then really it wasn't accurate for you to say you were converted on your mission.

And cut the subtle jabs at a Christian not understanding you.

Wrigley said:

Then really it wasn't accurate for you to say you were converted on your mission.

And cut the subtle jabs at a Christian not understanding you.

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In order for me to "cut the ... jabs," I have to be aware that I am jabbing. Which ever of you two I accidently jabbed, please accept my apology.

Among LDS members it is an accurate statement and experience. By your definitions I will accept that it isn't.

Toms777 said:

Here is a Hymn from the Mormon Church Hymnal, written about Joseph Smith. Does anyone have any thoughts or comment about what this hymn says about Joseph Smith?

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois* while the earth lauds his fame.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "brother Joseph" again.

Chorus: Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

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I listen quite often to Christian Radio, and a phrase I picked up on was "read scripture in the light of scripture."
Can not the same be said about our hymnal?

A hymn called "Redeemer of Israel" reffers to Jesus as "our only delight." That should confirm what we have been trying to tell you and close this topic with an assurance that do not worship or equate to diety to Joseph Smith.

MormonFriend said:

I listen quite often to Christian Radio, and a phrase I picked up on was "read scripture in the light of scripture."
Can not the same be said about our hymnal?

A hymn called "Redeemer of Israel" reffers to Jesus as "our only delight." That should confirm what we have been trying to tell you and close this topic with an assurance that do not worship or equate to diety to Joseph Smith.

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After reading the hymn to Joe once again after your post, I'd have to say. "And that follows how?"